This is a transcript from our podcast episode published September 25th, 2021. The podcast episode is offered for .1 ASHA CEU (introductory level, professional area). This transcript is made available as a course accommodation for and is supplementary to this episode / course. This transcript is not intended to be used in place of the podcast episode with the exception of course accommodation. Please note: this transcript was created by robots. We do our best to proof read but there is always a chance we miss something. Find a typo? Email us anytime.
A special thanks to our Contributing Editor, Caitlin Akier, for reviewing and editing drafts of our transcripts. Her work helps keep our material accessible.
[00:02:04] Kate Grandbois: We're so excited for today's episode today, we have the great pleasure of welcoming Uri Schneider. Welcome Uri
[00:02:15] Uri Schneider: Hey, it is such an honor to be here, so great to see you guys.
[00:02:19] Amy Wonkka: We're so happy to have you, , you are here to discuss transcending stuttering before we get started with that? Can you please tell us a little bit about yourself?
[00:02:29] Uri Schneider: Absolutely. Well, first of all, thanks for having me and as excited as you are. , I'm super excited to see you guys and to have this conversation and to share this with your listeners. , it's also nice to be on this side of the conversation, you know, being grilled with questions. So thank you for that opportunity.
A little bit about me. I think transcending stuttering pretty much captures it. , I was born and raised, , with my mom and dad. And my dad is known to many of our colleagues and friends as Dr. Phil Schneider. He was the original Dr. Phil [00:03:00] before Dr. Phil and, very much has that has that personality of being a very memorable mentor friend colleague, and he's still doing it.
He's still doing what he loves to do: teaching mentoring and doing therapy and helping people, even as he's living with Parkinson's now. , so he's expanded his understanding of living with, with challenge and living with things where you want to go a certain way and your body doesn't cooperate. And so he's thought of as very much a guru in the true sense of the word when it comes to stuttering, but he says that when he got Parkinson's that's, when he really started to understand that at a whole nother level, that like stuttering and Parkinson's having, Parkinson's informed his understanding of stuttering because suddenly his body wasn't cooperating. So he started to appreciate what it must be. Like, someone knows what they want to say, but their mouth, their voice just isn't ready to make the moves. , so anyway, I grew up with pictures [00:04:00] of laryngeal mechanisms hanging on the wall and my father talking about the heroism of his clients, the exhaustion of his days, but the satisfaction of his work. And for me, that was an inspiration as a six-year-old kid. I couldn't even say speech language pathologist, you know, I would front on most of those sounds, but, , I kept coming back to it again and again. So this is my life, you know, and transcending stuttering for me is a platform for my own human experience of being a husband, being a dad, being a friend, being a good citizen. So, , I enjoy being a dad. I enjoy being a husband. I love the work we do. If I won the lottery tomorrow, I would just try to help more people. I still do the work that we do and, and help more therapists to great work and feel great about the work they do. And, , in my free time I enjoy running and as Kate has been encouraging me. Some comedy, some comedy on the side here,
[00:04:55] Kate Grandbois: I was wondering what was going to come out of your mouth. So we've [00:05:00] had, I've had the pleasure of chatting with you a bunch over the last couple of weeks as we prepare for this, as we collaborate around other things, , and talking with you is always such a joy.
And I wonder if you could tell our listeners before we sort of get into the learning objectives, tell our listeners a little bit about transcending stuttering, , as, as an entity, is there a place just before we get into the meat of it, a place where people can sort of touch base about it or learn a little bit more about it, I've had a chance to learn a little bit about it just through our conversations, , which is one of the reasons we wanted to bring you on to share some of that knowledge.
, but if you could tell us a little bit more about some of the basics and what it is that would, that would be.
[00:05:42] Uri Schneider: Absolutely. Thanks for the opportunity. I think, , it might be the first place that I'm sharing that we do have a new, a new address for all things. Transcend transcending, stuttering. So www.transcendingstuttering.co.. Someone else grabbed the.com. , so [00:06:00] www.transcendingstuttering.co,, and essentially transcending stuttering started off as a documentary film. In 2004, my father had recorded all of his clinical work for decades, like actual footage back when video cameras were like, I dunno, the size, the size of a suitcase. Exactly. And believe it or not, his clients tolerated it. So both, , you know, in, in any clinical setting that he was working. So what he ended up with is, is. Tens of thousands of hours of video. And you literally can see people grow up in front of your eyes. So an eight year old kid becomes a ten-year-old kid, becomes a 13, 20 year old, 30 year old, and it's all real footage.
It's not staged and it's not B roll. So transcending stuttering is a documentary that documents the journeys of several people who stutter men, women, black, white coming from all different sorts of places. But what's amazing is the universality of the experience. And, , also the [00:07:00] stages and chapters that people go through and the triumphant stories of how they end.
They all go differently. Some of them continue to stutter. Some of them don't, but they all become exceptional human beings who discover great meaning and great purpose. That documentary came out. And some of us on the team, Joy Kling being one of them a colleague of ours. So we've got to do something with this. We got to create a curriculum.
We've got to create a way for people to learn and grow through this in a way that kind of unpacks. Well, how did, how do you do that? The second film is going with the flow. Another documentary, these were on PBS, very, very well received. These are two documentaries. Awesome. And then in 2020, we start with an online course.
It's like a self-help course for people who stutter a group therapy for people who stutter and then in partnership with some great people at SLP nerd cast who will remain nameless. , you know, we've been able to put together a CEU offering. That's pretty significant. And unlike many [00:08:00] others, both in terms of how many ASHA CEUs can be earned 1.2, five ASHA CEUs, holy smokes.
If you're listening to this, this is just like a little, little like crumb, you know,.1 CEUs.. But 1.25 that out of the three that you need every three years. Pretty hot. And it's, what's cool about it is it's a cohort based course, which is also different. So really quickly, we usually go to CEUs you go for a lecture, you hear some things, hopefully it's worth your time, worth the money. You get the CEUs, you come in, you learn something, you write some things down, you leave. Hopefully you remember something, but generally whether it's the next day or the next week, you're back to doing therapy the way you were before and whatever. Flash of brilliance or inspiration, it's somewhat fleeting or at best, it's hard to integrate.
And what's cool about cohorts based courses, which this transcending stuttering, you know, CEUexperiences for SLPs is it's lasting over time. So we meet periodically there's content that can be processed. That's prerecorded, [00:09:00] that's, that's written and printable and usable in therapy for all the therapists.
But we meet with space in between for consolidation and processing. And we have an asynchronous community online where the conversations just keep going and the support keeps going up to keep each other on fire, so there's this peer mentor community where people are growing together around the country and was super exciting to seeing people that have very little experience in stuttering very early in their career, as well as people who are hall of fame, ASHA Fellows,, and specialists also kind of jamming around the same campfire and everybody has something to gain and everybody has something to give.
So I see myself as a, as a conductor, as a steward on the ship and the ship is sailing and we welcome SLPs who are interested in learning more and really having a great experience and finding the dignity and the pride and the confidence, but also feeling that they can be change agents, you know, [00:10:00] really helping others take ownership of their own journey and communication, no matter what.
And it goes beyond stuttering. And that's why it's transcending stuttering. It's beyond stuttering. It's about the people, but it's also using stuttering as a platform, as a springboard to leverage growth and courage and humanity.
[00:10:21] Kate Grandbois: I love it. I want to unpack something that you said in that, first of all, every time you speak it's it demands my attention and there's so many little nuggets in there, but what you said about a cohort learning experience, I just want to emphasize that because I, at least speaking, personally, I have had that experience where you have.
Sort of one sided staring at a screen, being left to digest it on your own. You take notes and then, you know, the 15 minutes after the lecture stops and then you go about your life and you, not that you forget some of it, but your mind is a sieve, right? We all have those moments where we go and we put our attention elsewhere into our life, into our regular lives.[00:11:00]
And what I love about you, what you've created in this community is there is so much more of an interactive learning component, , which is so important when we're really trying to be vulnerable enough to acquire a new skill or admit that we don't know something or seek more, , seek more information from a peer.
So kudos to you. And thank you so much for creating that platform. , and I'm so excited for people to learn more about it as we sort of go through the course or go through this episode,
[00:11:33] Uri Schneider: I was remiss. I forgot to mention. SLP nerd cast what? A podcast, huh? Podcasts. Talk about innovation. Talk about changing the way people consume, you know, good professional content.
It's both got personality, but also substance. I mean, podcasts are also amazing. So I want to give you a lot of credit and everyone out there, who's consuming podcasts, everyone out there who is producing them, it is not easy. [00:12:00] There's also a transcending, stuttering podcasts. We've got tens of episodes.
They're interviewing people who, stutter researchers, professionals, influencers from around the world. Just bringing those conversations to life and making them available for free. But yes, I think all of us as professionals and also as we work with families, with clients, with young people and older people, we should think about innovative ways to reach people, innovative ways to share information and also create opportunities for transformation.
And in particular, the key of the cohort based learning is that multi-directional learning. It's not just interactive. It's literally, you know, I will share something. The group will be able to share back. We have breakout rooms, we have collaborative documents in real time where we put our contributions together.
So there's this multidirectional learning and exchange that goes on, which makes for really healthy give and take. And for all of you listening to this podcast, if you're an SLP and you want to take part so just go to transcending, stuttering, excuse me, [00:13:00] www.transcendingstuttering.co go to the SLP page.
If you want to register for a cohort for the SLPs, if you put in the code SLP nerd, SLP nerd. If you're an SLP nerd, you can use that discount code for a hundred bucks off for the next event. And they're also free events and opportunities. So it's not just a sales pitch, but a little courtesy to the amazing stuff that you guys are doing.
Well,
[00:13:22] Kate Grandbois: thank you. That's very generous of you. And, , as a person who participated in registering all of your content for ASHA CEUs I can definitely say it's, it's worth the while. It's a really great experience. , and we're so excited to get into this, into the actual components of transcending stuttering.
So let's, , we're going to move forward quickly with learn, reading our learning objectives and our financial and nonfinancial disclosures. Sometimes people write in and ask me to skip this part. I can't ASHA makes us read it. So stick with us. We're going to get through this as quickly as.
[00:13:55] Uri Schneider: I'm just going to take a nap.
Can you just buzz me when you're done,
[00:13:59] Kate Grandbois: then just [00:14:00] go ahead and mute your camera. That's no problem. No problem. Okay, here we go.
Transcribing...
Transcribing...
[00:14:03] Kate Grandbois: Learning objective, number one, explain the speech mechanism and neurophysiology of stuttering learning. Objective number two, identify more than one speech fluency strategy
learning objective, number three, define at least two aspects of the transcending stuttering framework.
[00:14:19] Kate Grandbois:
Disclosures Uri Schneider's financial disclosures: Uri is the owner founder of transcending stuttering, and the director of Schneider speech nonfinancial disclosures.
Uri is a faculty member at the university of California, Riverside school of medicine, Kate Grandbois financial disclosures. That's me, I'm the owner and founder of Grandbois therapy and consulting LLC and cofounder of SLP Nerdcast my nonfinancial disclosures. I'm a member of ASHA, SIG 12, and serve on the AAC advisory group for Massachusetts advocates for children.
I'm also a member of the Berkshire association for behavior analysis and therapy, Mass ABA, the association for behavior analysis international and the corresponding speech pathology and applied behavior analysis, special interest group.
[00:14:59] Amy Wonkka: Amy [00:15:00] that's me. , my financial disclosures are that I'm an employee of a public school and I received compensation as co-founder for SLP nerd cast.
And my non-financial disclosures are that I'm a member of ASHA SIG 12, and I serve on the AAC advisory group for Massachusetts advocates for children.
All right, uri why don't you start us off with you? Tell us a little bit about the landscape of centering intervention in our field.
[00:15:27] Uri Schneider: That's a pretty Rocky landscape. Don't lose your footing. , you know, I think stuttering finds itself in an interesting time and interesting place. We have a president of the United States.
Who's a person who stutters, , no politics, but just to recognize that someone it's very emotional, I'm getting emotional, like to think that this was a person who grew up that as a teenager, his nickname was dash. , so he says, because not because he was fast, but because they, they teased him that he talked like Morse code, , to think that he says that it [00:16:00] was, it was more likely that he, as a teenager, he thought it was more likely he would grow up and get the Nobel prize in science.
Then become a politician, a career politician, let alone president why he hated science. He wasn't very good at it, but to think that he would make a living as a public advocate, as a politician speaking as a professional. That's amazing. So on the one hand, we have this incredible example of the sky's the limit.
There is no ceiling for people who stutter and at the same time, we're still dealing with a lot of misunderstanding, lack of understanding, a lot of fear, , and stigma surrounding stuttering and people who stutter and as professionals, as speech, language pathologists, we should be leading, leading this charge of being allies for people that stutter, doing great advocacy for people who stutter of doing great supportive guidance or therapy with people who stutter and in reality about one percent of all speech therapists are showing [00:17:00] interest in stuttering or feel able and ready to step up. So out of 150,000 SLPs in the United States, at 1% show an interest in stuttering, we've got to step up, we've got to do better and we've got to make it doable so that more therapists can show up. Otherwise we're leaving many, many young kids and families and adults behind.
[00:17:20] Kate Grandbois: This is something that we talk about a lot on our show, , about how wide our scope of practice is in the field of speech pathology and how it puts SLPs in this position where we sort of have to know almost too many things. I mean, it's no one can know everything. And when you're a new grad or you have a job that sort of throws everything at you, you know, you're expected to treat whoever walks through your door or whoever gets put on your caseload, regardless of your scope of competence. It can really put clinicians in a pickle to be honest, I mean, really upping, butting up against [00:18:00] our ethical code in terms of operating outside your scope of competence. , as a matter of fact, Amy and I were working as, , "AAC specialist." We use, , stuttering as an example, a lot. I, I, that isn't nowhere near my scope of competence.
I have not worked in that area of academia or clinical application since, I don't know, 15 years ago when I was in graduate school. So what are you, or what are your perspectives on this issue? As it relates to an SLP who is maybe listening, who has a caseload of 140 in a school, which by the way, is a real person that I know with a caseload of 140 students in the school.
You know, there are a lot of components here. There's unreasonable working conditions, there's unreasonable caseload size. What is your perspective on how to support clinicians who are in that situation?
[00:18:59] Uri Schneider: [00:19:00] It's tough one. I think just acknowledging that it's a tough position. The first thing I think, to recognize all the efforts of many great people, I don't want to leave anyone out, but there are some people that have dedicated tremendous amount of time to improve the amount of training that goes on in grad school.
So that more of the next generation SLPs will have better preparation, but there is that fundamental problem. The big nine or whatever is going to be the scope of practice, the number of things that students and programs are expected to train in it's impossible. So I think credit to them, I think that's a slow moving process, but it needs to continue to move forward.
And again, many thanks and hats off to them. What we're doing here is taking people where they're at wherever they're at, whether they're still in grad school or just out of grad school or further on, like you described your friend. And if we can find a quick way to equip them with a tool belt of ways that don'tmake stuttering therapy, overly complicated, overly scary, but like [00:20:00] very doable, very touchable. I think the first thing we all need to do is stop making everything so darn complicated. Like we need to be committed to the highest level of professionalism. We need to be up to date with best practice and latest research. We need to have mentorship.
We need to have supervision. Those are all things that I look for at the same time when you meet Jane or Jack in school, and maybe they're even in a group of kids with different things that they're dealing with, or maybe you're meeting them alone in a private practice in the hospital clinic. It really doesn't matter where don't look at them as a pair of lips. Don't look at them as a diagnosis, look at them as a person, look at their family as a family, every family has their own multiculturalism. Every family has their own set of values, their own set of circumstances and challenges.
And we got to meet everybody where they're at and bring the humanity back into the room. And when you do that and you get enough of the professional [00:21:00] training and professional access and professional supervision and support with peers and mentors, the sky's the limit, and you can make a huge difference in someone's life
[00:21:09] Kate Grandbois: And can, I just say how that fits so well with the title of what you're talking about is that, but that does transcend stuttering. I mean, bringing humanity into your, you know, into your clinic room or into your speech room is going to benefit you as a human and your entire caseload. , and I also want to say that if you're listening to this episode, then you are obviously seeking continuing education and more information so that's a great place to start. And I wonder if that sort of leads us into the first learning objective related to the speech mechanism and neurophysiology of stuttering. , can you tell us a little bit more about that? And I'm going to learn here for the first time, cause I haven't reviewed this in 15 years, so lay it on me and tell me all the things
[00:21:52] Uri Schneider: So, I want to frame that, I think one of the, just we'll pull back and put it into the frame of this transcending, stuttering. We have a [00:22:00] framework with four parts and what you're asking Kate, each of those objectives are going to tie into one of these pieces, because I think as SLPs, most of your audience, I assume our speech language pathologist or SLP A's or SLTs, depending where you are in the world.
I don't know how much of a British audience you have, but, , hopefully some, some good who
[00:22:19] Kate Grandbois: knows, right? As in, if you're, if you're in Europe, send us a note, we have no
[00:22:23] Uri Schneider: idea. Right? That's right. Good. Ima, , that's down under. But, , what I was going to say was, I think we, one of the challenges as a speech language pathologist, and again, this goes to how we learn in school and how we continue to learn.
We ended up with a lot of bits of information and they're all over the place they're scattered, like, you know, like a piece of glass that got shattered and it's all over the place But it's like looking up at the sky and you got all these stars and what did people do? They started to connect the dots.
And the first step is you gotta collect the dots. You can't start connecting the dots before you have all of them. I think I heard that from Michelle Garcia winner. I don't know if that's an original of hers, [00:23:00] but you got to collect the dots and then you got to connect the dots and connecting the dots starts to give meaning and purpose to what you're seeing this constellation.
So before I give you the speech mechanism, which I'm going to do, cause I think it could be one of the most mind blowing things to open up this whole stuttering thing for clinicians and for people who stutter, let's just put it into the frame of their four parts of the framework. Self knowledge is the first thing a person should have a chance to know what stuttering what's communication. What are my strengths? What are my challenges? What are my weaknesses? What's my profile. What's my picture. And how do I put that together as it is. What can I leverage that I already have? What can I bring out of me that I got inside of me? And I'm talking to speech therapists and also people who stutter and parents, right.
Nothing brings out the best in us and the worst from us as being parents and caretakers. , but it also brings out things we didn't know we had inside of us. We didn't think we had the capacity to care for another living being. , and suddenly we find herself [00:24:00] in that position. So we do things we didn't think we could do, but self knowledge, knowing ourselves, knowing the landscape of what we're up against and what it takes.
Self adjustment will be the strategies self-acceptance I think is somewhat self-explanatory and self advocacy. So we got these, , the four parts, but again, we got to keep it human and I just want to highlight the four parts are self known. Self adjustment, which is learning different things that you can do that can make your situation or your performance easier or make it more challenging. So when it comes to stuttering, we're talking about helping people discover what are the things that make me stutter and get stuck more, more, often more dramatically. And what are the things that make it easier? Less effortful, self acceptance is accepting what I can't change. Like what are the circumstances that I can't like?
I have brown hair. I'm also losing my hair at this point. Like I just got to accept that, trying to fight that does not look good. And I promise my kids comb over is not happening. It's just not, it's not. [00:25:00] Thank you. Feel the same way. Thank you. Thank you so much. So I have many colleagues, I won't name them who are balding beautifully and boldly and.
And I followed their lead. , and then self self-acceptance is that, and then self-advocacy, I think is the most important thing we don't do enough is, is how do we tell our story to others? How do we make sure that what we've come to understand and come to grips with and lived with on our terms, how do we share that with others so that they treat us, listen to us, support us in the way that we wish, because so many parents want to support their young, you know, young or not.
So young children, teachers want to help their students, but they don't know what the kids really want. So let's go back to your question, Kate, which I think is will we'll drop one concept or bomb for each of these units. , that will be an insight as a concept and will also be helpful as a practical tool.
How's that sound?
[00:25:53] Kate Grandbois: That sounds wonderful. Drop them.
[00:25:58] Uri Schneider: So I told you and Amy [00:26:00] about something very powerful. I've uncovered. Yeah. But we could do another talk about that, about how respiration and phone nation is a very significant, , intersection where kind of a laminar airflow, you know, it turns into pulse, their flow and starts to create these sound waves in the world.
I won't go into the cabalistic insights on that, which we talked about before. If you're interested, hit me up with a DM, but what is cool is that with step one, it is cool to understand. Stuttering is to understand it is a neurophysiological thing. One of the most important misconceptions is to think it has to do with some psychological or emotional feebleness or weakness or some lack of knowing what you want to say.
People don't stutter because they're nervous people don't stutter because they, , they have a lack of intelligence. They may also have social anxiety. They may, they may have anxiety, but not all people who are anxious. And not [00:27:00] all people who stutter are anxious. So the first thing is to just recognize that in terms of self knowledge, your temperament can be the shy, timid type, or it can be the extrovert.
Who's acting in a shadow personality of a person who's shy because they don't want to be the extrovert that they really are because they think they'll stutter. So they put on this facade and you don't see them talk as much, but they really have this extrovert waiting to come out of their shell. What's happening in stuttering.
If you can break it down and neutralize, it demystify, it it's so helpful because it takes the stigma away for others and for the person themselves. So essentially the vocal folds, as we all know, are moving at thousands, hundreds of times a second, right? The coordination of respiration to phonation, to resonance, to articulation is this unbelievably coordinated ballet.
I often think it's more incredible that we don't stutter, that it usually goes off without a hitch. Right Amy,
[00:27:56] Amy Wonkka: right? Yes. I mean, it's amazing when you stop and think all of [00:28:00] the things that have to go well for us to effectively generate any type of speech at all.
[00:28:06] Uri Schneider: So the sequencing of that is remarkable.
So essentially what's happening in stuttering is the vocal folds, we know, move in their positioning. So if you are holding your breath or if you're locking your, you know, let's say you're picking up a heavy table, or I'm thinking of women's tennis, you know, all the grunting there, it's all about getting leverage on the core, right?
To lift something heavy, or if you're going to the bathroom, or if you're giving birth, you're going to lock the larynx. So the closing of the larynx that bringing the vocal folds together tight has that purpose. Also, when we swallow, we know that the closure is part of that. , the other position is when you're listening right now, probably you're sitting there breathing hopefully.
And your vocal folds are open. Voice happens when they're. Approximating, , the adjacency one to the other, and they're not too tight. Now, if you think about when Amy's talking, when Kate's [00:29:00] talking, when I'm talking, there's no breaks between the words, there's this constant flow that creates a sound signal.
That's pretty much uninterrupted a voiced and unvoiced sounds. And then somehow I just put that out into the world and you guys are picking it up in your ears and hopefully for the most part, you have good hearing. And then auditory processing kicks in, sends that signal over to the language processing.
And somehow the listener is able to decipher where words begin and end, where sentences begin and end, and then create meaning from that fluid sound signal remarkable. But within all that on the production side, is this voice on voice off. Most of us take that for granted, but if you think about it, it's two extreme positions.
You have wide open when you're just taking a breath, inhale, you have tight. At different times. And then you've got the approximation of volts when they have to move from one extreme position to another, from no voice to voice or from voice to no voice. That's where [00:30:00] people who stutter have a, a physical sensitivity, you could think of it like an allergy.
Okay. So similar to like, I know how to breathe, but if there's enough dust in the room, I look like I can't breathe. I start coughing and going into some sort of allergic situation. So I'm not suggesting that it's a breathing problem. I'm just using an analogy. They know how to talk. Their voice works.
They're there. Their neurology is wired, just fine, but there's a sensitivity and they have these hiccups and it's specifically, and understandably when there's a voice onset or coming off of that. So just think about it. Where do people get stuck? They get stuck often at the beginnings. They don't get stuck at random places.
If you think about someone whose name, my dad had someone come in, his name was Sam. And he says, Hey, Dr. Phil, you know, I can't say S I can't say ass. My dad says, show me what you mean. He says, my name is
Sam. See, but dad says, what are you talking about? You got, you got a gold metal S [00:31:00] over there, you got a longer, stronger S than I heard in the whole, the whole month. Your problem is not the S probably moving off the voiceless. S so the voiced, , a vowel right after it. So it's that transition from the S to the vowel.
What needs to happen there when you're doing the voiceless? I don't know if this is on tap with what your listeners would appreciate, but you just visualize this. Your, your vocal folds are wide open, right? Because it's voiceless and then they need to come, but not shut. And what happens for many people who stutter is they might get just, they don't want to cooperate.
They stay open, the vocal folds stay open so they don't get any. So that's, what's happening with him, stretching out the S his brain is saying, move on, move on. And that should happen, subconsciously. It's not a volitional control kind of thing, but it's not cooperating, or what happens instead of being able to approximate one another, the vocal folds and go into the phone atory position, they end up shutting and, and no air comes out.
And that's [00:32:00] when you get those silent blocks there, the same thing could happen on the starting of like, let's say my name and open vowel, like apple or Adam or Uri. So there's this silent hesitation. You see their lips moving, but you don't hear the sound coming out. So what's happening there. When you've got an open tract, the vocal folds are where the closures at.
They need to go from a tight shut position to adjust open, but, but able to let the air come through and do that passive isolation. And that's where the that's where the hiccup occurs. When you do that, you demystified stuttering
[00:32:34] Kate Grandbois: just about to say, you're getting into that level of detail as a person who was very novice in this, in this academic area, you would not only appreciate as you described it, the ballet of what happens, but you also, it gives you a better framework through which to analyze what's happening when you, it doesn't.
It seems to me that you can't really do this work without having an appreciation for all of that finite [00:33:00] physiologic physiology.
[00:33:02] Uri Schneider: Or you could just let me tell you that. And then you're set, meaning I don't want people to leave this thinking, oh, I need to understand like the neurophysiology of voice physiology of voice.
No, you don't. But what you do need to do is you have to have some working understanding. And I think this speaks to also when you're working with kids and you're working with young people and you're helping parents. Okay. Here's your practical tip on this whole. Nobody needs a 14 page PDF that you downloaded from the best organization that has all the tips that you could imagine.
It's, it's actually like information overload and parents and all of us. When we have something we're looking up on the internet, Internet's very powerful, very helpful. Gives us access to a lot, helping finding communities of support, helping find information fantastic. But information overload in and of itself is not always actionable and it's not always emotionally helpful.
It can be overwhelming. So I think our job is to figure out [00:34:00] how do we provide this kid, this parent, this young person, enough information that they have, like a working understanding that is practical, that's meaningful. It's significant. So I think when you've got that list, you should take that PDF. You should become very knowledgeable about the kind of tips that are recommended.
Even if it's not your scope or area of expertise you become acclimated. And then you make the best decision you can as to what tips you might want to offer this person. What anatomical physiological insights. You want to give this person, but when you explain it the way I did, you just, you explain it in a way that, oh, that's at least plausible.
Now I can say, yeah, there's a physical basis to stuttering. It's not emotionally based. It's not cognitively. Oh, but wait, why do I start her more? When I'm nervous? I always told her more. Of course you do. Of course she do. And all of us that have things like I eat when I'm nervous, other people go shopping, other people gamble.
I won't say what other other people do. But generally when do those things act up more, when do they [00:35:00] flare up? When we're in a state of stress. So stress exacerbates, stuttering being nervous, exacerbates stuttering is not the cause of stuttering. So the allergy to peanuts is not a peanut problem. You know, it's a problem with a certain threshold of something and the peanuts are a trigger and that's the response.
So you have a sensitive system that has that response to that trigger. So people who stutter are sensitive and this'll bring us to the next one. And I'll pause for your next thought. People who stutter, what are the two things that are most sensitive to overall in general is, is pressure. And speed. Speed is the speed with which one speaks and coordinates all this ballet, right?
I often say if you asked me to do one move in the Nutcracker from one end of the stage to the other, I would fall on my face at least five times. , and if you asked me to do it in rapid fire succession, like speed it up one and a half speed. As many of you might be listening to this podcast, , you know, I'm gonna fall over more.
If you do something to change [00:36:00] the speed, I might have more alacrity and more fidelity in my movements. Similarly, with the articulatory speech stuff and intensity, we know his speech, language pathologists, and a little bit maybe voice therapists, right. Intensity has to do often with volume. So glottal pressure is often related to volume.
, so those are the two parameters that can often, , , more stuttering or more intense
[00:36:24] Kate Grandbois: stuttering. Well, my next thought was going to be exactly sort of what you alluded to and how that's, if you know, I think of intervention as first, you identify the problem or you do your assessment, right? And then you design your intervention to support an individual through the problems and strengths that you've identified.
So having those components as a backdrop and thinking about exactly, as you said, as this leads into this second learning objective related to, to, , strategies and fluency strategies, how do those two relate to one another?
[00:36:59] Uri Schneider: I [00:37:00] spaced out for a second. Can you just remind me what were those two things? I was listening to every word, but you got me thinking about something else that I would share that.
Okay, let's go there. I was thinking about one of my other passions and I got this from my mentors, , in grad school. , Sima Gerber, Joel Stark, Renee Toueg, Arlene Kraat Pat McCall. My father, Dr. Phyllis Schneider, Stanley Gelfand. I think I got most of them. , the concept is assessment is dynamic and ongoing.
I think, I think we need to rethink the concept of what is assessment and what's treatment. That's what you got me thinking about. I just wanted to share really short on that as speech, language pathologists. I think number one, we think about assessment as like this activity that's separate from treatment.
And then we think about treatment it's on a separate from assessment, and I think we need to find more ways. Number one, to connect the two that there should be far more connectivity. And that means in both directions, [00:38:00] our treatment should follow our assessment and our assessment should be relevant to treatment.
So here I am with two women. And I don't know the listening audience, but I would say like one of my most uncomfortable questions that I was taught to ask on an a Val, but I don't. So tell me about delivery, natural delivery or C-section of what relevance is that going to have on my treatment plan, right.
Of what relevance or impact is that going to have in my comfort and my ability to create rapport with this mom or dad, it's just sticking my nose, where it doesn't belong and it's not relevant and it's not going to change my therapy. So I think do assessment, that's going to inform you in ways that are going to be helpful and shaping a way to understand the constellation of what matters here and then build your treatment off of that, and then build your assets.
To build your treatment and recognize it doesn't begin and end after the first visit, it's ongoing and use this feedback [00:39:00] loop of how therapy goes to kind of revisit update your assessment, which is a working understanding of what you're dealing with. And to recognize it changes over time. You know, the kid at the beginning of the year, different than the kid at the end of the year, he's a different kid, same kid, but different kid.
Kate and
[00:39:16] Amy Wonkka: I talk about that. We talk about that so much because we have big feelings about data collection and just making the point that really, when we're collecting data throughout our sessions, we are doing a bit of that assessment. When you're collecting the data. You're, you're taking a moment. In your treatment to get a little bit of that assessment data, and that's going to inform what you're doing.
So I think, you know, all like high fives through the internet, but, , it really, we did it guys. , I think, you know, I think that that is such an important point to make for kind of any application within the field. There is that thing that you do that is assessment, this formal process, that's usually tied to funding [00:40:00] and eligibility and all of that stuff, but that, that really isn't where it ends and your treatment should continue to be informed by little bits of assessment.
And that's why data
[00:40:09] Kate Grandbois: collection is so important. All right. I just want a second Amy's thoughts. I loved the concept that you just mentioned that assessment is ongoing because that's very true and it sort of loops me back to my original question. , I hope you're paying attention now, so I'm gonna, I'm going to reply.
I'm going to, I'm going to repeat the two things. So you had mentioned. That two things that people who stutter struggle with our speed and pressure. , and I'm wondering if as your assessment is ongoing, what are, and thinking about our second learning objectives of, , which is identify more than one speech fluency strategy, is it safe to assume that those strategies are related to speed and pressure, or are there other components and other fluency strategies that, , should be looked, should be looked at more [00:41:00] thoroughly?
[00:41:02] Uri Schneider: Just a shout out to all my ADHD, brothers and sisters out there. , the fact that I got distracted. Yeah. So I'm going to just, I'm going to answer your question. Little preview dropping little self-advocacy here. So I have something called ADHD. It doesn't mean I'm not interested in what you're saying, but sometimes my mind sparks connections that you might not have realized.
So I might ask you to repeat, just know it's not an indication that I don't care or said I'm not paying attention. It's actually a sign of, I really value what you're saying. , so just, , I appreciate if you can entertain me and repeat the question sometimes. So I got it this time. I'm going to come back to that.
You did not, and there's no reason to feel bad. There was nothing apologetic there. That's the whole point we're going to get to that in self-advocacy we're going to circle back to that. Okay. Okay. , so the question of understanding and assessment and then strategies for [00:42:00] fluency.
So again, principal, we don't teach strategies. You don't teach someone how to do something that should be automatic. Speech should be spontaneous. Speech should be within the context of communication. If we are doing therapy that is plastic and sterile and stiff, and yet we think we're taking data, we're taking the wrong data for measuring wow.
In the laboratory of my clinic room or in my therapy room. We're able to achieve fluency of this percentage on this percentage of words, this percentage of the time. Yeah. Ooh. Well, that's one way to fill out your paperwork, but that's not a way to make a difference in someone's life. Now, what if there's a way to make difference in someone's life and inline with SLP nerd cast and in line with the best of our profession, find ways to take data on meaningful change.
You can do that and it doesn't have to be complicated, but we're not going to dive into that. But my point is don't teach strategies. It's not about teaching them. It's about leading [00:43:00] them on a journey of self-discovery. And that's why each of the units is self self, this self, that it should be like a science experiment.
I meet kids 8, 9, 10 years old. Those kids are not coming because they want therapy. They generally don't care about their stuttering. Parents are sending them or someone else is sending them generally. Okay. , but the point is you can engage them. You don't need to teach them. You have something wrong in your speech.
It's called stuttering. You need to talk like this, but you can engage them and say, wow, what a treat I get to hang out with you. Tell me a little bit about you. What makes you tick? What are you into? What gives you delight? Oh, anything, anything hard, you know, anything different, you know, anything anyone ever says to you that bugs you and you get an idea what's going on from that, from their perspective for those kids, motivation and buy in is not going to be around something that you're going to convince them of, but it can be, Hey, can I, can I interest you?
And becoming really smart about this whole speech communication thing. Like you could use this for [00:44:00] your science project at the fair later this year, and you could teach them what we talked about a few minutes ago, and then they become the expert. And then you say, Hmm, let's do an experiment. Let's see if we talk like this and you say, Hey, you know, which lane of the highway do you go in?
The lane on the far, right? Is about 40 miles an hour laying in the middle about 50. The left lane is about 60. Which lane do you like to drive in? So that also gives you a sense of temperament. Could you sense a processing speed? Right? And it legitimizes all of them. You don't say the good lane, the bad lane, you think about your language.
That would be something else we talk about and transcending, stuttering and self knowledge. What's the language we use. , so you talk about speed like that. You make it real life, use analogies, like driving a car. You make it very matter of fact and very touchable and no stigma and no shame and no, no words of, of jokes.
But words of description. So you asked me how fast do you think you talk? And it he'll be like, oh me, I'm like constantly getting speeding because I [00:45:00] go like 80 miles an hour. , I'm constantly getting pulled over by my mom, you know, whatever. Okay, cool. Let's see what would happen? Tell me about the Yankee game last night.
I just had to throw that in there, Kate, because I am from the Bronx. I'm gonna make sure you know that and we're in bombing
for anybody listening, who doesn't know the, the red Sox Yankees
we're not done yet. Okay. Or tell me about the super bowl with, , giants. Yeah. Eli Manning. Yeah. , so New York giants, totally new England Patriots book, even, even your quarterback left.
, so yeah, Tom Brady knows what's up. , so the bottom line is like this. You got to talk to the kid and their language, but the kid says I like to go 80 miles an hour. I would say great. Tell me about last night's game and this time, what if you would go like 15 miles an hour faster. And then you say to the kid, okay.
I say like, how was that? Did that feel easy? Did that feel hard? Or you might ask in terms of data, here's a quick data hack one to 10. [00:46:00] How easy was that? Or how hard was that? Boom. Now you've got metrics that you can take your own data. You can check in with this young person, teen or adult, and then you can also do something if you need to with calibration between the numbers.
But if you're plus minus and agreement of one with one another, you're good. , but it could be interesting if they have a different number, I would not jump in and convince them that they're given the wrong numbers. Okay. But you listen to their story and you use these numbers and use this kind of like interviewing style, conversational, chill kind of style.
And then you say to the kid, okay, what if we tried like this? You can drive from New York to Boston with no stops. Okay. This is what I would say to the kid, but you do a family road trip and everybody gets in the car and mom and dad. Everyone go to the bathroom. Okay. You know, we're not stopping until we get to grandma's house.
Now another family gets in their car and they say, guys, go to the bathroom, but don't worry. We're going to stop at those three, you know, three big stops in Connecticut. And then right as you enter a mass pike, right before that, , easy [00:47:00] pass thing over there, you know, so which of them are going to get to grandma's house first?
Probably the ones that don't make a stop. What are the, what's the family going to look like when they jumped out of the car? They're all got their bladders exploding. They're all at each other's throats running. And what did they get for it? They got a few minutes, but they're all hyped up, stressed out at each other's throats.
The other family, I don't know, in a, in a drive to Boston, how much time did they lose? But the key is by making those stops, the pressure, the Amherst is different. Another analogy you get on a plane, transatlantic plane. I do that sometimes like New York Tel-Aviv Tel-Aviv New York, for some reason, it's a different psychological experience than getting on the L I R R train from long island to New York.
I packed the same bag. It's like a pack of book pack my computer. I really don't pack that differently in terms of the carry on, but there's this mental stress that I feel when I know it's a long trip. So the strategy for stuttering that we like to lean on is pausing. If you could [00:48:00] put your words into these packets, into these buckets and put, put bigger pauses between phrases, you're like the family driving to Boston, but you stop at the pit stops.
It makes the load and the press. If you want to get into the neurophysiology, I'm happy to go there or we can leave it, but just think like Amazon, how many of you ordered from Amazon? You guys order Amazon?
[00:48:20] Kate Grandbois: Oh, of course. I feel, I feel like I should be ashamed to say so, but
[00:48:24] Uri Schneider: yes it's. Okay. You shouldn't feel ashamed.
We can talk about that in counseling later that we'll do another one of these on counseling. , seriously, so listen, Amazon, you ordered 10 things from Amazon. How many boxes does it come in? You order one order. One shipping address. You're one person you paid for it in one transaction. It never comes in one box.
Right? Right. Anyone ever think of that? Like why do they pay for extra boxes, extra shipping? Let's assume they're all at the same packing plant. The reason is the more things you're going to put in a box, the higher, the chances something's going to drop the [00:49:00] fewer items you put in the better, the chance you're going to get a successful delivery of the right items and the right number of items.
So the fidelity of the delivery is going to be impacted by how many pieces are stacked into one box. So we know that the more words you pack onto a breath group, that is the packet of information sent from the brain to coordinate respiration, foundation articulation and everything. It's a much heavier packet, but if you have fewer words, if you use a little bit of pausing just to punctuate the phrases, no robot speech.
But just learn to take these steps in between the phrases. It can sound natural. It can be a tool that effective communicators use. You can sit in school or in your clinic and show the kids videos of great speakers from around the world, from Obama to others. You want to message me. I'll give you a link to a whole demo of what sites I use and how we do that.
And you can take a transcript of a speech and a video of a speech, and you can show how [00:50:00] great communicators this is, what they do. So the strategy would be could this young person experiment, explore, discover what feels more comfortable, pushing your limits, driving 90 miles an hour, or what if you did this, where you drive a comfortable speed, whatever feels natural, but you do stop at the guest stops.
So that's an example.
[00:50:21] Kate Grandbois: I love the analogies that you use. I think it really helps. I don't know, harking back to something you said earlier in the episode about how clinicians are scared of treating stuttering or, and I'm one of those people. So I feel comfortable saying that, you know, it's not something that, , a lot of us feel comfortable in, but when you use those analogies and you have a better, , you know, thinking about the neurophysiology as a backdrop, thinking about components of speed and pressure, thinking about assessment as an ongoing, , component.
And I know we haven't even talked about counseling, but counseling being such a huge part of this, , I think the analogies really help [00:51:00] us to digest stuttering, which can feel like such a, a large, , a large and overwhelming thing to address and tackle in our therapy rooms if we don't feel equipped to do it.
So thank you. So, I mean, the analogies are great and it really helps me. So thank you for that. , and I wonder if we could spend our last 10 or 15 minutes. Sort of carrying over that thread of counseling and self-advocacy and thinking of N T tell us a little bit more about the transcending stuttering framework.
You've mentioned it a couple of times, , that it's a multi-pronged approach and I know you've mentioned some components of it, like self-advocacy , what, what else can you tell us about the transcending stuttering framework?
[00:51:45] Uri Schneider: Perfect. So I think one thing that you said, , we did touch on counseling a few minutes ago.
I think. So we said that word, but, , I loved what you said that it's helpful to you, which made me think we should think in therapy, like what's helpful to the other person [00:52:00] shouldn't come in and give them what we did last time or what we did for the previous, , therapy appointment. We should really think about what's good for this person.
So I was joking about the new England Patriots, but we're going to come back to using that because I do know that Kate's in Boston. So that's the context of where she is. So we're going to use that and I encourage you when you ask people that you're meeting, like, what are you all about? What makes you delight?
What do you do on the weekend? What's your favorite subject that informs you as to what are the harbors of safe space and of analogies and of connection that you can have with this young person? So I think you use that information, not just as a feel good. Let me check that off and get that out of the way that informs the understanding of this person.
And then it helps guide you in what you're going to do with them. So that leads us to self-acceptance. You asked me about the four parts of the framework, and I'm going to turn the table on you for a moment in a second, but for all the listeners, no notes. That's what [00:53:00] we have to take away. The oh no, there comes the stuttering case.
Oh no. I just thought I just
[00:53:05] Kate Grandbois: said, oh no. Cause you were going to put me on the, in the hot seat
[00:53:09] Uri Schneider: who said it's hot. Maybe it's one of those seats in the car where you got like the air conditioning center. This is a seat with the air conditioning on your back. And also under your bottom, you got air conditioning coming everywhere.
No hot seat, cool seat. , we all need courage as SLPs. We need courage to step into, to being present for people that may present with things that, that give us the heebie-jeebies. , and we need to be able to hold space when people get emotional and cry, whether that's our thing or not our thing, we gotta have the courage to lean in.
So I think courage is very important because it also is what we're asking them to do for the young person, the teen or the adult or the parent. So much of what we ask them to do is asking them to go again. Like their first response. The first response is I want to be safe, fight or flight I'm out of here.
I'll avoid, [00:54:00] I'll do anything, but, and we're asking them to do things. We have to be ready to do the same. And that's the best way to help someone, you know, flex their own courage and show them, us, ourselves, doing things that are outside of our comfort zone. I think that's very powerful and it becomes something you can do in different settings with different students.
And in a group setting, you know, the kid who's got, the ADHD kid has got language processing stuff going on, the kid who has other, a different profile and the K2 stutters, they're all working on different things, but you can find that common ground anyway, in transcending stuttering, I tell all the SLPs, I want to be able to wake you up in the middle of the night.
And you remember these four things because they're that helpful? So self knowledge, self adjustment. Okay. Strategy type stuff. Things I can do, and I can change. I can influence making it a bit easier, making it a bit harder. Self-acceptance somewhat [00:55:00] self-explanatory but not necessarily. And then self advocacy.
Let me show you how helpful these four parts of the framework are. So I'll toss it up to you guys. Okay. And then I'll count 1, 2, 3, and you could say, is it part of self knowledge? I'm going to say something now, if it's self knowledge, self adjustment self-acceptance or self-advocacy and if you're listening, we'll give you a little pause, time to process and think which bucket would you put it in bucket?
One bucket to bucket three and bucket four. Feel like we're at Yankee stadium, they have a part where they do this. They throw out a question and everybody has to answer, you know,
[00:55:32] Kate Grandbois: like the jumbo Tron.
[00:55:34] Uri Schneider: Absolutely. Absolutely. So here we go. So, , the kid says, oh, , I really wish Mrs. Smith wouldn't call on me to read out loud.
I really wish she wouldn't call on me to read out loud. Which bucket would you put that in? Is that self knowledge, knowing about speech and self and all that is about self adjustment. How to change the way I talk or different mechanics [00:56:00] to make it more challenging or more easy. Is it about self-acceptance tolerating myself, loving myself, giving myself the care and regard that I deserve, or is it about how I tell my story to get the treatment that I want from others?
Self-advocacy is it bucket 1, 2, 3, or four? 1, 2, 3, 4. What do you say
[00:56:20] Kate Grandbois: I was going to go with with self knowledge? Oh, Amy, what was your I always going to go
[00:56:27] Amy Wonkka: with self-advocacy
[00:56:29] Uri Schneider: and you're both good. Here's another one. Yeah. Wait, I need one of us to be
[00:56:34] Kate Grandbois: right.
[00:56:36] Uri Schneider: I'm just kidding. I'm just used to altering therapy is going to require no rights and wrongs gotta be flexed.
Truly, truly there are going to be things that go in two buckets at the same time. Why don't you tell us Amy, why you thought it was self-advocacy and then Kate, you could give your rationale why you thought that and they could both be good. .
[00:56:53] Amy Wonkka: I was thinking I'm self-advocacy because your client was identifying their [00:57:00] preferences in terms of how somebody else would communicate with them.
[00:57:04] Uri Schneider: Yeah. Cool. Well, that's an opportunity that student is telling you. I don't yet have aligned with my teacher. My teacher doesn't know the way that I would like to participate or have a pass. And so to me, that is a ding ding ding, in, in, in a certain way of an opportunity to look into activities related to self-advocacy.
How can we explore the channel of an issue ready for that? And what is she ready for? And how does that look? It's not a black and white, but at least I know. When you asked me Kate, what's the terrain, at least I know kind of my navigational intelligence clinically, where am I leaning here? What was your thinking, Kate, in terms of self knowledge?
Cause I think there's something there.
[00:57:43] Kate Grandbois: My, my thought was about it being self knowledge was related to the end of eligible the individual being aware that they were avoiding, they were avoiding that demand. They were avoiding that task in the environment and sort of knowing that it brought them [00:58:00] uncomfortable feelings he didn't want and they didn't
[00:58:01] Uri Schneider: want to do it.
Great. Great. I love that. I think that's great. And what I would think as I keep thinking about this is like, there's the experience of the person who stutters or the client for any of us. And then there's our experiences as professionals, you know, how's our avoidance management going, how aware are we have our own avoidance of certain things, stuttering therapy and among them.
So I just think it's fascinating when we could start just looking, being more mindful. And, and watching ourselves go through the things we think about our clients and what we want to tell them and just reflect it back. So one more example would be the kid says I had such a bad day, you know, that's such a bad day.
And it was like, it was a stellar day. It was like Disneyland day. There was just a lot of stuttering. So the kid says, I just had such a bad day. I'm such an idiot. So is that self not? What does that tip off in our mind? Self knowledge, self adjustment, [00:59:00] self acceptance, or self-advocacy 1, 2, 3 or four. I'm
[00:59:04] Kate Grandbois: going to go with self-advocacy.
[00:59:07] Amy Wonkka: Oh, interesting. I'm going to go with self-acceptance because it's an opportunity to sort of think about maybe reframing.
[00:59:18] Kate Grandbois: Perfect. And I would have self said self-advocacy because they're, they're seeking support from someone saying I had, I don't know, saying that you had a bad day. Connecting with another person to get, to get that support or express their feelings.
[00:59:33] Uri Schneider: It's both, but guess what? It's not here's what's as helpful is Kate. Why it's not about what's right, but it's about what's wrong. The wrong thing for that kid is to serve up some strategies. The wrong thing for that kid is the self adjustment. Okay. Don't worry. Yesterday was a big stuttering day. We're going to have a great, smooth talking day in the office.
Now let's go, right? That is the most harmful thing any of us could do. And this is what I want to drive home. You don't need to be a [01:00:00] stuttering specialist to figure that out. You just gotta be human. You just got to think for a second, be that middle school kids step in their shoes. You don't need to be a psychologist.
It's not counseling as a fancy. You're talking about having a tough, uncomfortable time. You're sharing that with another person. What do you want them to do? Do you want them to listen? Do you want them to pry deeper and like dig and dig and dig and put you under the interrogation? Do you want them to tell your parents right away that you're having a really hard time and you sound depressed.
Do you want them to fix everything and tell you, oh, don't worry, honey. You know, be a cheerleader. Sometimes it's just a human thing to reflect and think of how we would wish a friend would treat us. So coming back to it, what I'm trying to say is the four-part framework empowers, simplifies and helps both the person who's going through stuttering and the guide, the parent, the teacher, the therapist, everybody can share the same language and you both gave great reasons.
Why it's those things, Kate, I love what you said. If [01:01:00] he's saying it's a bad day, it was a no good day. He needs to recognize the language he uses is going to impact how other people see him, treat him, think of him. And he has something he can do about that. He can say it was a really rough talking day. It was awesome.
Disney was great. I couldn't enjoy it as much because it was really distracting for me that I had so much stuttering going on. That's legit. And for Amy's point, absolutely. At the core you can't sell or tell the story that you're not living or, or buying or drinking yourself. So we can't advocate in a way that we're not ready to give ourselves the patient's love tolerance.
So I think for that person, it's about recognizing, well, what were the other parts of the day? You know, give me the full picture. Not just that little snapshot or one angle.
[01:01:47] Kate Grandbois: I love this, but I feel like this is. So helpful for us as people, because I think sometimes we, as clinicians, we get our fixer hat on, like, I'm, I know have all this content knowledge and here I am, I'm [01:02:00] going to fix you and I'm going to help you.
And you're here to get better air quotes, you know, quote unquote, get better. , and we lose sight of the fact that we are also humans and we are there with another human. And there are so many components of our work that are not in the textbook. They're not rooted in content. They are rooted in these components of human connection and understanding, , and doing that to ourselves.
You know, how important that is to do that to ourselves, to break it so that we can bring our best selves, our best human selves into our therapy room. And when we don't do that so much as lost. , so thank you so much for going into that. And I wonder if in our last minute or two, if there are any. Any parting words of wisdom that you can leave, , our audience or things that you might add.
Anything else that you want to carry home that you haven't quite mentioned
[01:02:54] Uri Schneider: funny? You should ask.
I think, I think back to the biggest [01:03:00] influences in my life, and I ask you to think of yours. You know, if you're a speech therapist listening to this SLP nerd cast, you give you listening to a lot of other podcasts. Trust me, there's a lot out there, but something brought you here, but probably you here. It means you must be an SLP and you nerd out about SLP stuff and you love listening to SLP nerds, casting their SLP nerd out.
But my point is something keeps bringing you back. Right? So I think what brings you back? What inspired you to get into this in the first place? And I don't know if it was. You know, the recurrent laryngeal nerve and the fascination with the route it takes, or if it was broken or were Nikki, or if it was ABA or floor time, I don't know.
But I got a feeling that some of you like me, it had to do with something else it had to do with something that touched you. Maybe it was someone you knew in your lifetime. Maybe it was something a teacher professor shared for me, it was seeing my dad, [01:04:00] the joy, the relationships, the long lasting perspective of a lifespan of seeing someone who at one moment seemed so disabled, so unable, but believing in them and hanging in and seeing them shine.
That's what brings me back again and again. So I think I want to take that for all of you. Think about what brought you here. Probably wasn't something technical and informational probably sound emotional. So when you're working with a young person who stutters or a family, as Kate was saying, get off the, fix it horse and get on the carrot horse.
Carrots care care. And my, my, my mentor, when I think back to Joel stark, he taught me a lot. He passed away in the past 12 months or so he was the head of the department at the Queens college. And every year the students would make a plaque of 10 Joel isms, 10 quotes. And none of them were like the technical gobbledygook of our work.
Two of them, I'm going to share it with [01:05:00] you. And these are things to take with you, but think about what you wish your students think of you five years from now, if you're teaching as an instructor in college or university, or if you're a therapist, what do you want your students to say five years from now about what they did with you?
It probably is not about pausing and it's probably not that you saved their life with such and such technique, but they probably will say, you really cared. You really listened. You really showed up. You were really vulnerable. I could tell you didn't know what you were doing, but it was really great to see you struggle just like.
As we both tried to find our way. So I would just leave you with these two. Joel isms love them up in a ethical way. In a professional way. He was a person who was demanded the highest level of professionalism and intellectual rigor, but he also made it clear if you don't really care about the person you're working with, get out.
Cause nothing good is gonna come of it. You've got to care about the people you work with, even when they're really difficult, second kiss, keep it [01:06:00] simple. Don't over-complicate things. And yeah, and I just want to leave you with a feeling of confidence. You can do this, you can do this with, with the right support and a bit of, you know, leveling up and refreshing yourself with a good heart and a reasonable head and, and some professional judgment.
You can be the difference for acute who stutters and don't just pass the buck on the one hand. If you don't feel you can help them, you feel like. Do you get out of there, but don't be scared to make a difference because you could be the difference. It takes one caring adult to make the difference between a kid's life and the kid becoming a statistic.
[01:06:36] Kate Grandbois: Got them. That was beautiful. Thank you so much. You're I love talking to you. I said that at the beginning of the episode, I'm going to say it again. Now we always learn so much from you. , and I know everyone listening has learned a ton, , through the course of this episode. So
[01:06:50] Uri Schneider: we'll see what they fill in on their, a quiz at the end.
You
know,
[01:06:52] Kate Grandbois: there we go. , if you want to learn more, you can find more of Schneider speeches work and work [01:07:00] at, , on Instagram. , there's sending stuttering podcasts. There's also, , the transcending stuttering course where you can be a part of this cohort and to learn a little bit more www dot transcending, stuttering dot C O is the new website.
So, , thank
[01:07:16] Uri Schneider: you again, or www.schneiderspeech.com. There you go. And all, most of the content is a hundred percent free and obviously there are opportunities to dive deeper. So if anyone needs anything, we're here to serve and to help others, you know, get on fire and help others launch their own journeys, their own stories.
Thank you so much, guys. Thank you so much for
[01:07:36] Kate Grandbois: joining us. Thank you.
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