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Kate Grandbois: Hello, everyone. Welcome to SLP Nerdcast. I am very, very excited about this evening's, uh, or today's episode. I am here with the most people we have ever hosted on this podcast, ever in the history of this podcast, [00:02:00] which is really exciting. Today, we have the pleasure of welcoming the heads and members of the Multicultural Constituency Groups from ASHA, also known as the MCCGs.
Does everyone want to say a collective hello? Hi!
So great! Alright, so today we are going to discuss allyship and cultural humility. Which is something that we've mentioned on this podcast in the past here and there, but I'm very much looking forward to unpacking these concepts and going a little bit deeper with all of you. Um, especially how these concepts relate to our field, both speech language pathology and audiology.
But before we get started, I was wondering if each of you would like to briefly introduce yourself so that our audience knows who is with us today. I can go first. Um, I am Gregory Robinson. My pronouns are they, them, and um, [00:03:00] I am the chair of LAGASP, the LGBTQ Caucus of ASHA. Hi, good evening. My name is Sophia Carias.
Sofia Carias: I'm a bilingual service provider, an SLP in the Los Angeles area, and I'm the, uh, past president of the Hispanic Caucus. Hi, my name is Xin Hui Xin Cho, and my pronouns is she and her. I'm a professor at Minnesota State University, Mankato, and I co lead the Asian Pacific Islander Speech Language Hearing Caucus with Archie, and this is my fifth year leading the caucus, and we're very excited.
Archie Soelaeman: Hello, my name is Archie Sulaiman, and I am the co president of the Asian Pacific Islander Speech Language Hearing Caucus with Xin, and if you hear cooing, that's the Hi,
Brittani Hightower: everyone. I'm Brittany Hightower. I'm the chair of the National Black Association of Speech, Language, and Hearing, also known as NBASLA, and I'm an [00:04:00] SLP in Texas.
Ranjini Mohan: Hi, everyone. I'm Ranjani Mohan. My pronouns are she, her. I am an associate professor at Texas State University. And, um, the president of the South Asian Caucus of ASHA.
Shine Burnette: Good evening. My name is Aletha Shine Burnett. I'm half White Mountain Apache, half Navajo. I'm the president of the Native American Caucus. I'm a speech language pathologist in Arizona, and I work in the schools.
Kate Grandbois: And that is everyone. I've never felt more part of a group here. Usually it's just me, Amy, and one other individual, or maybe two, but this is very exciting and lots of fun. Um, and before we get into the content of the episode, I do need to read our learning objectives and our disclosures, which are lengthy because we have a panel of people here and I'm going to try and get through them as quickly as possible.
Learning objective number one, define allyship and list [00:05:00] two reasons why allyship is not a selfless endeavor. Learning objective number two, describe the importance of allyship in speech language pathology. Learning objective number three, list at least two action steps that clinicians can take to show professional allyship.
Disclosures. Sheen's financial disclosures. Sheen is a full time employee at Minnesota State University, Mankato. Sheen is receiving an honorarium for participating in this course. Sheen's non financial disclosures. Sheen has a professional affiliation with the Academy of Neurologic Communication Disorders and Sciences.
Sheen Asian Pacific Islander Speech Language Hearing Caucus, the American Speech and Hearing Association, Mankato North Mankato Act on Alzheimer's Action Team, Minnesota Connect, Aphasia Now, Minnesota Speech Language Hearing Association, Sophia's Financial Disclosures, Sophia is receiving an honorarium for participating in this course.
Of course, Sophia's non financial disclosures. Sophia has no non financial relationships to disclose. Shine's financial disclosures. Shine is self employed and [00:06:00] receiving an honorarium for participating in this course, Shine's non financial disclosures. Shine is the president of the Native American caucus.
Gregory's financial disclosures. Gregory is receiving an honorarium for participating in this course and has a full time associate professor at the University of Arkansas for medical sciences, and is also a contract employee for prismatic speech services. Gregory's non financial disclosures. Gregory is the president of Legasp, the LGBTQ plus caucus of ASHA. Archie's financial disclosures. Archie is receiving an honorarium for participating in this course. Archie's non financial disclosures. Archie is the co president of the Asian Pacific Islander Speech Language Hearing Caucus, a member of ASHA SIG 12 and SIG 14.
Brittany's financial disclosures. Brittany is an employee of a public school system. Brittany is also receiving an honorarium for participating in this course. Brittany's non financial disclosures. Brittany is the chair of the board of directors of the National Black Association for Speech, Language, and Hearing, also referred to as NBASLA.
school system. Brittany is also receiving an honorarium for [00:07:00] participating in this course. Brittany's non financial disclosures. Brittany is the chair of the board of directors of the National Black Association for Speech, Language, and Hearing, also referred to as NBASLA.
Kate, that's me. Most people who are listening likely know that I am Kate, that's me. Most people who are listening likely know that I am the regular co host here. My pronouns are she, her. I didn't even introduce myself. My financial disclosures. I am the owner and founder of Grand Blanc Therapy and Consulting LLC and co founder of SLP Nerdcast. My non financial disclosure is I'm a member of ASHIC 12 and serve on the AAC Advisory Group for Massachusetts Advocates for Children.
I'm also a member of the Berkshire Association for Behavior Analysis and Therapy. That was, I'm very impressed with, with, with myself for getting, if everybody's still here and with us, we've done it. Everybody's clapping. Hooray. Now, let's get into the fun stuff. I would really like to start this conversation by talking a little generally about allyship.
[00:08:00] Um, I wonder if any of you can sort of kick this conversation off by telling us what an ally is. How would you define an ally?
H Sheen Chiou: I can start, or Brittany, would you like to start? Sure. You can go ahead. I'll jump right in. Sure. Um, so an ally is a person who is not a member of an underrepresented individual or group, but wants to support and take action to help others.
So that targeted individual or group is typically underrepresented, marginalized, or discriminated. Um, in general, an ally will build. A supportive relationship with the individual and group and works in solidarity in partnership with them so their voices can be heard.
Brittani Hightower: I 100 percent agree with that definition of an ally.
I think, um, just to add to it. Being an ally is, [00:09:00] is more of a, and I know we're going to touch on it probably as we keep going through the conversation, but it is, um, something that you do almost, I feel like it's more from the heart. It's not a, it's not something that you're doing to show just because, Hey, I can help out with this group and help out with that group, but you genuinely want to support those who are underrepresented and want to, uh, help with promoting their agendas or their, their missions and visions to make sure that their groups are, uh, represented in the larger majority.
Kate Grandbois: This definition is bringing to mind two other terms I have heard used adjacent to the concept of allyship, which are performative allyship and also virtue signaling. Can any of you walk us through what those concepts are and how they are related to allyship?
Okay.
Gregory C. Robinson: [00:10:00] I mean, I can talk a little bit about, um, about performative allyship, um, as this is something that's very common that we see, um, that we talk about in the, um, LGBTQ community, um, because it's, uh, you know, it's sort of like, Um, there are a lot of like, uh, I don't know, big companies or something like that that during Pride Month, you know, they're, they're out there and they've got their rainbows up and they've got their, uh, they've got their, um, their packaging and it's very clear in those situations that they're not in it.
really for the community, but they're in it for them, for, for themselves. Like they're, they're in it because they think that that's going to sell more, um, more things. They're, they're, they're going to sell more if they, if they seem to show that they are Like an ally to the community during this pride month kind of a thing.
And you know, that it's performative [00:11:00] because once that, uh, currency runs out and the climate changes, as we are seeing in here in Arkansas, where I am, um, you know, suddenly everybody starts to backtrack and they're just like, Oh, wait a minute. Like, um, now we don't actually. need to, um, support the LGBTQ community or now we need to be like suddenly quiet about it or we don't need to be loud and it's like, Oh, okay.
So when it was benefiting you, um, then you were like all loud and proud, but then when suddenly the risk got high and, um, you started to feel like there was something at stake or you might. You might get in trouble for being an ally. Suddenly you backed off and that's, that's what we call performative allyship.
Now, um, I think we have to be a little careful about that because I think a lot of people get called out for, for being performative. Um, but there is a [00:12:00] place for it. Like, okay, so, you know, if, if we, if we have some anti trans legislation that's going down across the country and we have like people that are being attacked, um.
I'm like, please do not, if you are actually an ally, please don't care about being performative or seeming performative. I was like, you know, honey, the stage is out, the lights are up, the curtains are open, perform now. Okay. Now is the time we need you to perform. It's not like you don't need to be like, oh, I don't want to seem performative.
Like. I think you missed the point and we need you out there on stage now because there are people that are being harmed and there are, uh, we need the voice. We need the voices of support during the times when it's critical. So I think that, um, I think that we have to be careful, like people don't need to be concerned or scared about like seeming performative.
I don't know.
Brittani Hightower: I think, I almost think if you are [00:13:00] in that mindset, Then you're, you're probably not being a performative ally. You're probably a true ally and just go ahead and. Be, be that, be an ally.
Sofia Carias: That's right. People. Um, I think we're going to talk about that too, as we talk about this, uh, topic throughout this hour about, um, that kind of allyship, maybe they just don't know what to do to be a good ally.
And so it comes off like you're giving a performance to somebody. Um, but they don't mean to, I think that's what Brittany and Gregory were touching. Um, they don't know what to do to be an ally. They're like, how can I help that kind of thing? And I think that's, that's important to talk about too. It's like what could they do and feel like they're genuinely being an ally and not putting on a performance
Ranjini Mohan: and I think sometimes, um, with social media, there is a pressure to seem like you need to contribute to creating awareness, but I think that's where it stops there.
performance or their virtual, virtual signaling is it stops with [00:14:00] sharing a hashtag or, um, you know, the, there was the, um, during the Black Lives Matter movement, um, there was the, um, what was that? The Blackout Tuesday Square? Um. Mm hmm. So people would share that, but then not actually take any action. They wouldn't, um, you know, uh, donate or sponsor.
They wouldn't actually do anything more than that. And they'd think, well, I contributed to creating awareness. Well, we were all aware. I don't think that one action necessarily did anything. much to benefit the community. Um, and even if it did, it's a very small act. And then to think that you're an ally because you, um, shared something online is, it just means that, well, yes, that's like maybe valuable in some way, but that's not enough.
And it's, it's, we can't assume that. Um, I mean, there is this idea that It's about, um, you know, a previous act of solidarity [00:15:00] does not guarantee a future act of solidarity. And so, um, I think sometimes it's just as Sophia said, it might also be, they don't know what else to do and they feel the pressure. Um, they want to be seen as someone who's supportive.
And so there's that one little thing, but that's where it stops.
Gregory C. Robinson: Yeah. And I think it comes with an awareness of the fact that being an ally is dangerous. Like, it should be dangerous, like there is a risk to being an ally, um, because there is a risk to being a part of the marginalized community as well.
And so, um, by being an ally, you, you are, you are, you are taking a risk. And so to only Only do that work when it's not risky is, is, um, it's a little bit, I don't know, fake, I guess.
Brittani Hightower: And then also I think allyship is, it's not a one time thing. And I think Rangini was touching on that, but it's, [00:16:00] it's truly like a, it's almost like in your daily life.
Um, you may not do something every single day, but at some point in the course of your life, you, you be shown that you are an ally to a particular group. More than just that one share on Instagram, or, you know, and more than just in social media also like in your physical workplace in just the community at large, it trend, it transpires through all aspects of life.
H Sheen Chiou: And I, one thing I really love about, like, getting together with our multicultural constituency groups is, like, each group has their work
Announcer: group,
H Sheen Chiou: like, um, focusing on how, like, how to work together and make our voices heard. So, like, my example is, like, my, for the APA caucus, we have an anti [00:17:00] racism learning community, and It's kind of like we have different issues, different concerns that we like members bring up and then we host a plat.
We have a platform for people to talk about it and to talk about it. Generate actions and on how to work on things that we would like to work on, like, uh, for asset modification and for a, uh, code of ethics. And, uh, recently we have, uh, to, like Archie and I, and a lot of our members work down like how to remove, uh, um, an articulation.
book treatment material from the market just because they, uh, for some members, it's a racist, uh, image. So, like, I really appreciate having to be part of this group because, and with MCCGs, because [00:18:00] there's so much that we can do and there are so many allies that they are not, like, They are not Asians, they are not Pacific Islanders, they are not native Hawaiians, but they are here for us, um, and just, I, I just feel very blessed to be in my caucus and in this group.
Kate Grandbois: This conversation about allyship and and performative allyship is making me think of something that someone said to me once a long time ago, and I'm interested to hear your perspective on the statement. It was that allyship requires an exchange. So the person who is. actively trying to be an ally is giving some form of their privilege, time, money, activism.
There is an active exchange happening. It's not a passive, Activity like an Instagram square. Would you say, does that resonate with any of you as, as a decent [00:19:00] description?
Gregory C. Robinson: I think it's, I think that's interesting. I've never, I've never thought about that. And I, I like that. It's a, um, it's a rule of thumb that I think is. Good.
Kate Grandbois: And I know we're going to be talking a lot about action steps that clinicians can take later on in this hour as we move through this. So, um, I think we can maybe ping back to that later on as people who are listening are reflecting on things that they can do and how that exchange might play out.
I had also been told at one point that a person in a position of privilege doesn't really, can't really call themselves an ally. And the term ally is something that is given to you by another individual. Is that true? What are your thoughts on that as a concept?
Ranjini Mohan: So I do, um, align with that idea, um, a little bit. And I think it comes [00:20:00] from a lot of the marginalized people being slighted. Um, uh, throughout history by trusting allies, people who claim to be allies, and then finding out that it was not genuine or that we can't count on them. Um, and because, uh, in the beginning, when, um, Brittany and Sheen were talking about the definition of allyship, they talked about action, right?
So, allyship is, In the moment of the action, but unfortunately, a lot of people claim it to be their part of their personality like it's an identity. And the downfall with that is that when they are silent in a specific situation, or they act in misalignment with their proclaimed allyship. and they're called out on it, it hurts their ego because they say, well, I'm an ally.
Someone questioned [00:21:00] their identity. And, um, that can have a negative effect on, um, on, on the group that the community that they intend to be. Um, I can give an example. So I have a, a colleague, a friend who, uh, is, uh, is her back. She's Indian and she worked at pediatric clinic and she loved her boss because her boss claimed he loved Indian food.
organize, you know, cultural events, uh, like Diwali parties and always insisted that everybody, all their employees receive, um, diversity training. But it was that same boss who consistently made multiple recommendations to my colleague to, um, risk to seek accent modification services, which she consistently refused.
And none of her colleagues or her clients had ever complained about it. And, um, when she called out her boss on it, he said, Well, but I, [00:22:00] you know, I'm just learning. I, I, I, you know, I need more information. You need to tell me when, when I'm doing something that's wrong. And then again, that comes to this idea of is it our response?
Is it the, the marginalized person's responsibility to teach someone what, um, is acceptable and what is, uh, discriminatory or not. And, and that person clearly that boss's ego was hurt because he thought he was an ally. So it, when people use these like one off moments to claim or prove allyship, it becomes about them and not about the community that they are, uh, they aim to support.
Because people don't realize that it's a lifelong process. And there's a lot of, you know, Um, time and, uh, energy and emotions in practicing lifelong allyship. Um, and so, um, I think, uh, by and also, I mean, the other idea is that by calling yourself an ally, it implies that your [00:23:00] journey is over, that you're already completed that process and you're an ally now.
But as long as, uh, systematic oppression exists, the process can never be complete. And that goes for all of us, right? Where just because we are part of, um, someone is part of a marginalized community doesn't mean that there isn't room to learn and support other communities. And so it goes for all of us.
We've all made mistakes, but it continues to be where you, it has to be about, Continuing to acknowledge those mistakes and learn and, um, and, and actually take action. So you're only an ally in that moment of action. Um, and not, and it's not necessarily, uh, something that is something that we can count on.
Gregory C. Robinson: Yeah, I would, I would agree with Ranjini a hundred percent. And, um, I think that. I think that, um, I think that people might benefit from being more descriptive with their language a little [00:24:00] bit, so rather than, you know, when people are referring, like, to the LGBTQ community, um, to, that they are an ally. So a lot of times what they're saying is that they are a safe space.
So they're saying that you can feel safe with me. I am an accepting person. And that's very beneficial. Like I need to know where those safe spaces are and I need to know, um, uh, you know, that, that those exist, but, um, perhaps, you know, um, staying away from I'm an ally as if that is something that has been now achieved and now it's done and set and and everything like that.
I think that that's different. I think that it's, it's interesting because like, um, We all have, we all have identities, right? We all have identities that we claim and we have ownership over those identities and what the name is we give ourselves. But there are some identities that are really more about relationships [00:25:00] than they are about your own personal identity.
So like I have The sole authority to say that my gender is non binary, that is it. I am the only person who can say that. And, um, and that's it. I am the sole expert on that. However, to say that I'm an ally is actually a different kind of term because that's about my relationship With another group or another person and it's more akin to a word like friend so, um, you know, so I Can can you ever say that you're somebody else's best friend like that's a weird sort of thing Like why would you can I say that I am?
Oh, I am her best friend. Well, no, I can say she's my best friend But, like, for me to be so presumptive to say that I am her best friend, it requires a little bit of a, wait, you don't have the authority to [00:26:00] say that. That's, that's their authority to say that. Um, and I don't know, maybe their relationship is such that, that she's okay with me saying that, you know, that, uh, I'm her best friend or, or something like that.
But, um, nevertheless, it's a, it's a little bit of a different kind of, you know. Identity term ally is not like all of the other terms of identity that we have. It's different.
Kate Grandbois: I love that, um, description of making it akin to saying, Oh, well, I'm her best friend. I think that's a real that clicked. I think that was a really, um, clear parallel. And I really appreciate that. Um, in the conversation that we had, uh, I think the last time I spoke with all of you was about six months ago for anyone listening, and this is being recorded.
So this is odd nebulous of time. You don't know when that was. We do have a previous recorded course with all of these lovely humans, um, specifically talking about the resources [00:27:00] that are available through the multicultural caucuses at ASHA. And I. You know, you all, your groups, the organizations that you're leading and that you're a part of, have so much to offer our field.
You all have talked about continuing education opportunities, community outreach, and it's, we all know by now, That the field of speech pathology is incredibly homogenous. I don't have the exact statistic in front of me, but I can safely say it's around 92%, 92 point something percent of white women. And that leads me to make the assumption that a lot of people who are listening fit that demographic.
And I'm wondering, For those of us who identify as white, cisgender, heterosexual might be listening to this conversation and thinking about the multicultural constituency groups and thinking this does not apply to me. I don't [00:28:00] belong in one of these groups because those are not my identity. Um, and. In our previous conversations, you all had talked about not only the resources that the groups offer, but that your doors are open.
You are wanting people to be involved, and for anyone who is listening, who is in, who is not part of a marginalized group, why should a white cisgender woman join one of these groups? What are the Um, emotional barriers that they may need to overcome to feel comfortable approaching one of these groups and, and taking, taking action to join them.
Sofia Carias: Chances are that in our profession. You will be working with somebody in a marginalized group. Um, the chances are very high considering the um, educational disadvantages and the um, disparities in healthcare.
Shine Burnette: Like,
Sofia Carias: um, you will [00:29:00] most likely be working with somebody from a marginalized group.
And I think you have to have um, information to do that. And that's why I think we exist. Part of the reason we exist is to give that information. You don't have to be, you know, Hispanic to be in the Hispanic Caucus, um, you just have to work with that population or be interested in working with that population.
Um, yeah, I
Gregory C. Robinson: mean, none of us exist in a silo, like everybody, everybody is connected, like we're all connected and I would ask anybody out there. Are you interested in making the world a better place? Like, are you interested in making it a more inclusive place for everybody? And like, that means you too, because by making the world a better place for, um, marginalized people, you're making it a better place for everybody.
And I, I love this quote that, um, that I came across, uh, from Lilla Watson. Um, and it says, If you have come here to help me, you are wasting your [00:30:00] time. But if you have come because your liberation is bound up with mine, then let us work together. And I just love that because, um, You are, you enter into these relationships with groups because you realize that you are a part of helping to make the world a better place.
And also it's an acknowledgement of the fact that the very oppression that people of color are facing is the result. Of white history. And so is it only up to the people of color to address the discrimination that is actually caused by, and it originates from, um, the, the people in power. And so it's, you know, it's, I think that it's an acknowledgement that, that we are all a part.
Of this together and we are all here [00:31:00] little fishes swimming in a swimming in a in a fishbowl and we are, um, and, uh, we all need to work together to make sure that it's a pleasant place to be for everybody.
Brittani Hightower: Right. I think also. Um, like, I think we mentioned before, like, yes, we have all these resources that would be beneficial to people who are not of our, uh, identify as a person of our groups.
But, um, I think that research that we offer the resources that we offer. They just help to make you a better and more well rounded clinician. So if you're able to join our groups and one, like we've said before, you don't have to look like us or identify as how we identify to be a part of our groups. Um, we're in Basel.
We always say if you align with our mission, our vision, and you want to support [00:32:00] our, our efforts, come on in, like our doors wide open. We do have members who are not black. I know a lot of people don't think that, but we do have members who are not black, um, and we welcome them and they are right in the fold, uh, on serving on committees, um, putting the initiatives into place.
So. I think that you should not feel, uh, there should be no emotional barrier, uh, if you have a genuine want to support any of our groups. Come on in. We're here. We're welcome. We want you to join us. We're happy to share our knowledge with you and then whatever questions you may have. It's a, we are those safe spaces.
Shine Burnette: I also think that. You know, when, um, when they come in that they could get a feel for some of maybe our cultural, our cultural [00:33:00] identities, the things that we kind of value. And, you know, not just as each, you know, Each of our ethnic groups, but also as a person, you know, today I was asking my kids. Hey, what are you guys doing for Christmas and they all had different, you know, um, Things that they do with their families, which was all different.
Whereas, you know, for us, they could get a little bit of of history of background of the reasons why we do certain things, you know, going back to the ally thing, you know, very, um, Um, difficult for some groups to really trust others to really believe that if they say they are allied do you really mean it or not, you know, but also we've gotten a lot of questions like hey, I work in this population.
Is there anything that you that you can help us with or that I should know which is great because you know then we can kind of give an insight but [00:34:00] also it's so diverse just even for us to cover every You know, tribe, but I think for people to at least come and say, Hey, can I just hang out with you or come to your meeting so I can get a little bit of understanding of why certain things are the way they are.
Gregory C. Robinson: I think that's really important. I think that it's something to circle back to something that Kate, you said in the question was that you said, you know, how do you, um, how do you feel comfortable going to these groups? Maybe you don't feel comfortable. Maybe it's not about being comfortable. Maybe that's the big thing.
Maybe you need to not be comfortable for a minute.
Ranjini Mohan: And, you know, Asha talks about providing culturally responsible, um, services, and, uh, one of the first steps is to acknowledge your own privilege and then to learn about other, um, others [00:35:00] experiences. And one of the best ways to learn is to, um, hear from others about their lived experiences.
And, um, what better place than a group that is, um, is, is working so hard to. Uh, support their community. And, um, so, and, you know, your question did ask about what can a white, cis gendered person do, but I would say that it doesn't matter what your um, race or ethnicity is, um, there is so much intersectionality even, um, across communities and I think learning from people who are learning more about it is very valuable.
So for example, like when I was, you know, a few years ago, when I was learning about trans rights, um, I, it made me reflect on, you know, like body autonomy and, and my experiences as a cisgendered female. And, you know, when I was learning about Black Lives Matter, it showed [00:36:00] me like concrete examples of potentially how I could, um, Um, advocate as a South Asian.
So not to say that I'm making it about myself and my identity, but it made me more invested in there, in these movements because I was able to relate to it. So it, it taught me about where I had privilege and where I didn't. And for the longest time, when I moved to the United States and I was South Asian, I thought, well, I'm part of the marginalized group.
But I didn't recognize my own privileges also as someone who is highly educated, someone who is, um, female, cisgender. And so I think, um, it, it shouldn't matter what your, um, your race, ethnicity or specific identities are. It's important for us to learn about people who are different from us. People who don't share those same identities because we might find that it's actually mutually beneficial.
We might learn things we about ourselves that we hadn't before. So I think it goes along with what Gregory was saying earlier about building a world that you build a better world. [00:37:00] But also, there are very specific things that you can take away from it that's beneficial for us also, as well as the community that.
Archie Soelaeman: And I just want to add to that a part of it is essentially just being vulnerable. Um, so join and be vulnerable. Um, learn from us. Um, and, you know, just like what everyone else has been saying.
Shine Burnette: And, and who knows, we could learn from you as well, you know, so like how, you know, to approach. Different topics or different things, you know, sometimes we kind of think like, oh, this is how they need to know or learn, but then they may come back and say, hey, this, you know, for us.
You know, could you kind of present it in a certain way just by different cultural things that we kind of present? You know, some people could be very straightforward and forceful with some things about the past history and of what has happened to our [00:38:00] people, but maybe that's not the way to approach some of these things
Kate Grandbois: for anyone who is listening and is. not only interested in joining, but would like to take some action in joining. I'm sure each of your groups has a different website and a different, you know, email signup process or whatever. So what we will do is link, um, we will put links in the show notes and on the website for each of the individual caucuses so that anyone listening has that information right at their fingertips and can, um, move through the process of joining.
I do want to take a second to unpack a little further the concept of discomfort. Um, I have, I really appreciate that, you know, several of you have talked about your own experiences with learning about other cultures. You know, one of the, in the title of this course is, and we've talked about it a little bit, this concept of cultural humility.
And. The, that what [00:39:00] goes along with that is something that you brought up, which is this concept of intersectionality. So there is no monolith. Everyone is their own individual person with different levels of, of privilege. Um, and I want to take a second just to talk a little bit about those uncomfortable feelings and what a person can do when they have those uncomfortable feelings.
If it's fear of hurting someone's feelings or. You know, I don't want to say the wrong thing and offend anyone. So I'm not going to join because I just don't want to put my foot in my mouth. Um, or I feel so guilty about my privilege that I am just not going to join or I'm going to stay within my own group because I feel more comfortable.
What are some of the, you, you've talked about this a little bit, um, but what are some of the action steps that a clinician could take if they want to show they have a [00:40:00] value to show some of this professional allyship or get involved in an MCCG, but there are still some emotional barriers or still some of those feelings of, um, guilt or shame or fear.
Which are very powerful feelings that will definitely stop action from happening. And I think it's important to talk about it a little bit more.
Gregory C. Robinson: Um, I can start, I guess. Um, I think that it is important to, um, to remember that, uh, that this is not, this is not about you. It's not necessarily about you. Um, and so that's something that, um, I, it is, it is about you and it's not about you. So like, I always try to go, okay, wait, are these feelings I'm having from ego?
Like, is it, is that, is that where these are originating? Um, because if that's the case, maybe I can do some internal work to try to like, okay, let's calm that. And let's focus a little bit more on the harm [00:41:00] that. Um, is happening over here. And let's see what we can do to mitigate that harm. Um, but, but also to, to recognize that, that it, it is a little bit about you as well.
Um, and, and to acknowledge that your, your place in that mix. Um, And sometimes like people will, I, I, I encourage some people to, if you're having uncomfortable feelings, because like, Oh, you said the wrong thing. Or like you, you, you, you did something that might've hurt somebody's feelings. And then they told you about that.
Like, um, I, um, I try and I'm not always successful, but I try to, to look at those moments as. Moments of celebration rather than moments of shame. And what I mean by that is like, I, it's a life work. We all have our biases. We all have our prejudices. We all have places where we [00:42:00] are potentially discriminatory.
And it is a life's work to constantly, constantly be looking and self reflecting and trying to find those places that could be potentially harmful. So when you find one, it is not a time to be upset at yourself because you're not a good person. It is a time for you to be Very happy because you discovered another thing for you to work on.
Like you made something that was secretive and possibly harmful, obvious, and something that you can definitely address. And like that flip In the switch is something that I think is really is sometimes very helpful. Um, and regarding being called out or called in, I saw a little acronym. Um, I shared this with the group and they thought, Oh yeah, you better share that because it was, um, I don't know where I found it and I tried to Google it and I couldn't find it anymore.
So if anybody [00:43:00] out there knows where it is fine, you know, um, shoot us the, the, the citation or the credit, but, um, it was an acronym that was called claim. Claim responsibility. So C, the C stands for center yourself. So if I'm being called out or called in, I'm being told that I've done something that was potentially harmful.
The first thing that you need to do is center yourself, like breathe, like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're about to have some pretty intense emotions because that happens anytime anybody gets called out or called in. That's a natural thing. So center yourself. Let's breathe. Now, L stands for listen. Listen to what it is that is the problem.
Listen to the person. Don't talk, listen. Then A is accept responsibility for what you did. And then I is inquire or investigate how [00:44:00] you can do better next time. And then M is move on. Don't over apologize. Don't make it about yourself. move on and commit to doing a little bit better next time. So C. L. A. I. M.
And I just love that little acronym. And it's hard to remember in the moment, but, um, it's, it's great to, um, to kind of aspire to anyway.
Kate Grandbois: That was awesome. That's a great acronym. Another thing that I think can sometimes be helpful is practicing some self compassion and some self forgiveness, just like you said, because no one is perfect. And we all carry biases and, um, everyone makes mistakes. And just because you've made a mistake doesn't mean that you are a terrible person.
Uh, it's an opportunity. It's an opportunity to, to learn and to do better next time. Uh, I want to. Maybe spend the rest of our, the rest of our episode talking a little bit about action [00:45:00] steps. So we've laid the groundwork for what true allyship is. Um, we've talked about how it's very action oriented that we've mentioned this component of exchange.
Um, we've talked about the resources out there, all of these wonderful groups that you all lead and are a part of. within our field to show and hold up professional allyship or create opportunities for professional allyship. Aside from joining one of these groups or becoming active in one of these groups, what are some additional action steps that clinicians can take to, to become a professional ally or get on a journey to become a professional ally?
Archie Soelaeman: I would say one of the things is just kind of take different opportunities to learn, um, be in the moment and just, you know, if you're, if you mess up, that's fine. Use that as basically a learning opportunity. Um, and, [00:46:00] you know, there are all of these, uh, all of our groups where you can, um, come and join us.
And then also. learn from the different constituencies and um, essentially like what Gregory said, just move forward, right? So learn, um, and use that as a learning opportunity.
Ranjini Mohan: I think another, um, thing that kind of goes with what you had, the real previous question is, you know, rather than coming with this, um, intention of, hey, I'm an ally, this is what I can do to help you. is ask a community. How can I help? So don't come with any idea. You can have ideas of different ways that you can use your privilege, but just asking, how can I help?
How can I, what can I do to support your mission? What can I do to support your agenda is just as simple as that. And it could be something as simple as, [00:47:00] can you help me create a week? I mean, the response could be, Can you help me create this flyer? Here is the information I want you to put on that flyer.
Or it could be as, as big as, uh, would you be able to join me in this protest? Um, or would you be able to sign off on this letter that we want to send to, uh, another organization to support our cause? So it just asking, and I think that, that sometimes the fear that people have is I don't know what to do.
I you have good intentions. But I don't know what to do, and I don't want to overstep, um, my boundaries. So just ask, how can I help? And accept whatever help they, they request. And if you're able to do that, then do it.
Brittani Hightower: I think that piece is important, uh, just so that you're, you're not unintentionally offending anybody, because I know, um, and even I might do it.
Like, I might think, oh, this is a good idea. This might be helpful for this [00:48:00] particular group. But in reality, it's far from what they need help with at that time. That might be a great, like, a couple months down the line, but right now, the help is something that's smaller that, that is more actionable for them in that moment.
So that ask, and I know we've mentioned having those feelings of uncomfortable, but, or uncomfortability, but I think if you can, Center yourself, find that, that inward, um, I don't know, motivation just to say, okay, let me put myself aside. I know that I want to help this particular group. Let me seek the person that may be able to help and also.
Anybody in our marginalized groups, we're not the expert on our marginalized groups. So we know what we need, but there's, we're not the only ones who can, [00:49:00] um, I don't know if I'm wording this correctly, but y'all know what I'm trying to, trying to say, but just like, because I'm a black woman does not mean that I know what all black women need, um, or want or desire and need help with.
So that's, I think that's something just to be aware of. We are not the experts on our particular group.
H Sheen Chiou: Yeah, exactly. Brittany, there's no way that we know everything. And it's no way that we, I think it's important to acknowledge that it's okay that we don't know everything we don't know how people live their life, and how to what their lived experiences are.
I think, uh, Ranjini touched on that earlier too, like, it's okay not to know everything and what do you do about it, uh, by joining us, uh, the Multicultural Constituency Group by, uh, uh, supporting our mission, our vision, [00:50:00] supporting our, Uh, what our tasks, uh, whatever we are doing at this at the time. Um, and, um, and usually an ally probably will be someone with power, right?
Uh, just that they are supporting a marginalized group. Because, so an ally probably has more power than an ally. a marginalized individual, what can they do to support, um, a marginalized individual or group? I think that's very important to consider, um, and lots of, like, those unconscious biases that are hard to identify, to be identified until there's a specific scenario happened.
And then you're like, Oh my God, that's my unconscious bias. And so it's okay to feel uncomfortable and to be able to kind of acknowledge, Oh, I didn't know this. And Oh, what did I say? That is very harmful to have that, um, [00:51:00] to feel comfortable being in a comfortable position. I think it's What's the term like to be comfortable with the, um, I think Brittany was trying to, uh, talk about that.
Um, yeah, what's that phrase? Being comfortable being uncomfortable?
Sofia Carias: Somebody Google it. Google it because I don't know. Um, I wanted to touch, uh, upon that, uh, I think I would suggest to people as a, an action step is to do some self reflection about the concept of like other, the otherness of other people.
Um, if that makes sense. Um, I think that we think a lot about other, like, like we're, we call ourselves marginalized groups and we're other. And I think people doing some self reflection about how much we have in common, not so much our differences, but thinking about what we all have in common. Um, so it doesn't seem like so other, like when you talk to people that you've never known or you don't know anything about, like, they don't seem like aliens anymore, you know, like, we won't seem like other those [00:52:00] other people over there.
Those over there. I think self reflection is an important part of that. I think that again, thinking about our commonalities and not so much of our differences.
Gregory C. Robinson: I'd like to add that, um, and so I'm about to make some pretty bold statements. So, um, so, um, so the, the, the disability community has, um, has a phrase, uh, nothing about us without us. Okay. And so that's, I think a super important thing to remember when we're dealing with, um, all of our marginalized communities and, um, we as a profession of speech language pathology have a long history of doing a lot of.
Things that we think would benefit other groups, but then not actually including anybody from those other groups on the planning board or the, um, the thing, um, that is out there, um, to find out if that's actually what they actually need or actually want or, or anything like that, or if we're even doing the right thing.
[00:53:00] Um, and so to, to include if, and this means, this is where I'm getting bold, like, We have a whole bunch of research, like, a lot of research that's going on in our profession. And the researchers are often not a part of the groups that are being researched. And I mean even the people with disabilities. So, like, actually, like, getting the input of the people with disabilities, or the, the communities, or the, the populations, and finding out what is it that you want to know.
me as a researcher to, to, to research. Like what do your, what does your community need? Is there any way that I can use my power to empower you instead of always trying to get acclaim and acknowledgement for myself? So like, you know, if, um, And so I think that that's, I think that's just really, really super important is to remember that.
And, and that also involves [00:54:00] like therapy, um, therapy endeavors that we are doing. I mean, if you're starting a new, um, I don't know, stroke support group in the nursing home, which is something I did when I first started my practice, I had a whole little stroke support group. Like bringing in the actual people in the group and co creating that together.
Um, but, but the big thing about this and the big caveat with this is a little bit, um, about like what Brittany was talking about is that, um, you don't lean on One member of that group as the expert and you don't If you are relying on the expertise of somebody else in the community Then that person should be getting something for that like that should be Compensated it should be an authorship an authorship like a co author on the paper that you're writing Yeah, they may not be [00:55:00] a researcher and they may just be a trans woman and you are researching trans women and then you bring on this person to help you write your dang paper and give them authorship because then they can put that on their resume and possibly get something from that.
Like that is important. Um, so it's just important to bring in the people from the community and make sure that we are actually doing. The work that we do, because like, it's really terrible allyship to just be assuming that you know best. What some other group needs and unfortunately that's what the history of our profession and the history of our country has been doing for a very long time.
Um, to the great detriment of, um, lots of, um, indigenous people, lots of, um, black, uh, other people of color. Like it is, it is, that is what the, um, This whole, uh, issue, and believe me, I have a lot of [00:56:00] lawmakers down the street here who think they know exactly what trans children need, and they've never met a trans child in their life.
And so, um, it's, it's very damaging, um, and I think that that's one of the biggest things that we as a profession really need to, to watch. And I think the disability rights movement with a nothing about us without us, if you can just plug that in repeat in your brain as you are going about your allyship work, like that will do a lot, I think.
Shine Burnette: And
Archie Soelaeman: I also just want to add, um, as we mentioned very early in this conversation, um, the field of speech language pathology and audiology is very, um, white. So when you. When you're in all of these spaces and listening to different conversations, [00:57:00] if you hear something that doesn't sound quite right, get uncomfortable and speak up.
That's how you can also help us is speaking out in those spaces where we are not there, because there's only 8 percent of us. Versus the 92% of everyone else. So if you hear something and you think that doesn't sound quite right, um, be the one that calls it out and get uncomfortable, I would to even add onto
Brittani Hightower: that part, in those spaces where you don't see us, if there's a way to include us, reach out and get us in there because like, like we said before, ne, none of us are experts on our own.
In our own group. However, that voice still needs to be heard. So if you're in those spaces where we're not represented yet you're talking about a [00:58:00] topic that directly affects that particular group. Ask why is that person or why somebody who represents that group is not there. And if there's a way to get someone in there, get them in there, let their voices be heard, get it straight from the source, if you will.
Ranjini Mohan: And going back to what Gregory was saying, which is really important, you know, having representation in leadership or in policymaking, but that there's the other side of it, which is sometimes there is this. Um, there is a token minority person that you always go to and you want, and that person then gets overburdened because they're in all these committees.
And it's also important to know that that one person is, does not necessarily represent their entire group and has perspectives that may, um, not necessarily be the collective voice. And so those are also opportunities where I think they can reach out to the multicultural constituency groups, because we do.[00:59:00]
Aim to represent collective voices. Um, and we have experience hearing multiple perspectives within our communities. And so, um, we can offer, um, advice. We can be consultants. We can, um, uh, uh, refer you to other people who have better expertise potentially, if you just want to listen, if you just need some additional help.
H Sheen Chiou: Yeah, I agree. I think like everybody has something to offer. Um, like in our field, like we have most of. Our, uh, certified speech language pathologists are all monolingual, uh, English speaking, female, and do we know that there are 350 languages spoken in the U. S., and if we can only serve one, we have problems.
So to be able to connect with multicultural constituency groups, you get resources, you [01:00:00] get support, you, even if we cannot figure it out, we can help connect you with someone who can help you. Um, again, like we don't know everything we are, like, if we are Um, if you let us show you the rope, we can support you, we can support our ally and our ally can support us.
I think it goes both ways.
Ranjini Mohan: Yeah. And, and, you know, some of, um, uh, the, these multicultural constituency groups, they, um, include languages or ethnicities and nationalities outside of the United States. And so we have relationships with, um, the speech language, um, and hearing associations from these other community, from these other countries, um, or states.
And so, um, if, if like we were talking about, like what, what do we, um, what are some of the services we offer? What are some of the resources we have? Um, if you have a client [01:01:00] that, uh, speaks a specific language and you don't know what standardized tests are available in that language. Um, you can reach out to us and we can, uh, help you find those resources or connect you to people who can share those resources with you.
Sofia Carias: I think like the title of this presentation and the one we did before, it's stronger together. Like, it sounds like a kitsch phrase, but it's absolutely true. We are all stronger together. And that's why we've made it a point at these groups lately, the last couple of years to work together on things.
We've made it a point to, you know, present and to disseminate information and to be seen You know, not just again, each other's like group over here and I'm over there and you're over there, like we've made it a point to be working together with each other so that we can do it because we have so many things in common.
We have more in common than we do not. And I think if we can generalize that, like, can you tell I work at a school I need to generalize those skills. We need to generalize that to the greater population of our profession. [01:02:00] We need to do that. 'cause Yeah,
Gregory C. Robinson: I'm really having a hard time not singing the high school musical song. We're all in this together. .
Sofia Carias: You can play us out. Kate, can you play us out with that song? I was gonna say, I put it over Wish
Announcer: I wish someone had warned me. I'd cue it up and we would just play it. The exit music copy you should do in editing.
Sofia Carias: You should do it. Can you do it in
Announcer: post? Can you put that in? Post
Kate Grandbois: I, I'll, I'll do my best. I'll do my best. Um, this has been such a wonderful conversation and I'm incredibly grateful to all of you for spending your time and your energy walking us through these concepts, unpacking all of this for anyone listening.
We encourage you to use the links in the show notes to learn more about the MCCGs, the multicultural constituency groups at ASHA. If you are sitting and listening to this or watching on YouTube and you're biking or walking or folding your laundry and you're having some [01:03:00] feelings that I have feelings too.
We all do. That's okay. Um, and we will link all of the additional resources in the show notes for further learning. Thank you all of you for being here with us. I really, really appreciate it.
Brittani Hightower: Thanks for having us. so
Ranjini Mohan: much. This was a great opportunity.
Sofia Carias: Thank you for the platform.
Kate Grandbois: Thank you so much for joining us in today's episode, as always, you can use this episode for ASHA CEUs. You can also potentially use this episode for other credits, depending on the regulations of your governing body. To determine if this episode will count towards professional development in your area of study.
Please check in with your governing bodies or you can go to our website, www.slpnerdcast.com all of the references and information listed throughout the course of the episode will be listed in the show notes. And as always, if you have any questions, please email us at info@slpnerdcast.com
thank you so much for [01:04:00] joining us and we hope to welcome you back here again soon.
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