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Intro
Kate Grandbois: Welcome to SLP nerd cast your favorite professional resource for evidence based practice in speech, language pathology. I'm Kate grant wa and I'm Amy
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Episode
Kate Grandbois: Hello everyone, welcome to SLP Nerdcast We are really excited to welcome Kelly Challen here today. Kelly is a local colleague that we have worked with in the past and we are thrilled to welcome her onto the show. [00:02:00] Welcome Kelly. Thank you so much for inviting me to be here, Kate. I'm really excited to join you and Amy and your nerdcast today.
Amy Wonkka: We're so pumped to have you. Um, and this topic is a really exciting one for me. Um, you are here to discuss the transition from IEP to adulthood. Uh, before we get started, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Yes. Um, I sometimes have a hard time. Talking about my succinct, myself succinctly, but I will try.
So, uh, in terms of the experience that I'm bringing to the show today, I'm a transition specialist and I work as director of transition services at NESCA, which is a private practice here in New England. Um, I conduct and oversee something called transition assessment. And we're going to talk a lot about that today.
Um, I also do consultation about a variety of different Transition related topics. Um, we offer planning and coaching services. We offer a lot of professional [00:03:00] development cause this is a complicated topic. Um, and, um, my educational background is in psychology and school counseling originally, but I've worked in my current capacity as a private transition specialist for the past 11 years.
Um, and I do a lot of in person work, but I also do remote work. So I actually have worked with families internationally, um, especially students from other countries transitioning to the United States for education or for post secondary education. Um, and I've worked with students in other regions of the country, um, but I certainly have the most experience and expertise locally.
Kate Grandbois: Well, I, um, I remember meeting you for the first time, I think it was 10 years ago, which is kind of horrifying. Uh, and the first time I heard you speak, it kind of blew my mind. Um, and I'm so excited to share this, as I was saying before we hit the record button, I feel like this topic of transition, transitional services is, is kind of a nebulous professional area where we all know it exists.
We kind of have a [00:04:00] general concept of, of, of what it is, what its purpose is, but. As you have kind of taught us previously, there is a lot more under the surface and it's really important for us to know because as clinicians and SLPs, we are supporting individuals who may benefit from these services or go through these services.
So I'm really excited to share all this before we get into, um, the good stuff of today's episode. I do need to read aloud our learning objectives and disclosures. I will try to get through that as quickly as possible. Learning objective number one, list at least three post secondary goal areas required for IEP transition planning.
Learning objective number two, identify two components of IDEA that impact transition planning. Learning objectivE number three, define transition assessment and transition services.
And learning objective number four, list at least two components of a comprehensive transition assessment process. Disclosures. Kelly's financial [00:05:00] disclosures. Kelly is an employee of a private clinic. Kelly's non financial disclosures. Kelly has no non financial relationships to disclose. Kate, that's me.
My financial disclosures. I am the owner and founder of Grand Bois Therapy and Consulting LLC and co founder of SLP Nerdcast. My non financial disclosures. I'm a member of ASHA SIG 12 and I serve on the AAC advisory group for Massachusetts Advocates for Children. I'm also a member of the Berkshire Association for Behavior Analysis and Therapy.
Amy Wonkka: Amy's financial disclosures are that I am an employee of a public school system and co founder of SLP Nerdcast. And my non financial disclosures are that I'm a member of ASHA, Special Interest Group 12, and I participate in the AAC Advisory Group for Massachusetts Advocates for Children. All right. On to the good stuff.
Uh, Kelly, why don't you start us off by just telling us a little bit about the first learning objective? What is transition planning?
So I think this is actually [00:06:00] um, Yeah, I mean, it's the most important thing that we're talking about today, right? So transition planning, um, is something that can be done for any human being, right?
Transition planning, if we sort of break it down, is thinking about a change in status from whatever's going on now to planning for the future. So for any individual, transition planning might include thinking Long term goals, breaking those down into short term goals, making a plan to be able to progress forward with that.
Um, but the type of transition planning that I'm an expert in and that we're here to talk about today is really IEP transition planning. And that has to do with for any student who's on an IEP in the United States, thinking about what are the outcomes that we are all expecting for that student after they finish special education.
And we talk about those outcomes sort of in three specific areas. We think about what is the integrated employment experience that student is going to have. After special [00:07:00] education, and that in itself is really important because we're actually thinking about how is this person going to be included in employment in the real world when they finish education.
We also think about what kinds of learning or training experiences. That individual is going to have, so maybe you've got a five year old on an IEP that we need to think about, like, what kinds of learning and training is that kid going to be ready for when they finish public education, and that might be something like college education, but that also might be something like hands on training or technical instruction, and there's different skill sets required for these different things, and then we also think about what is independent living going to look like for this individual, as well.
And that is obviously going to be widely different for students who are on IEPs, but we want to be thinking about, you know, quality independent life for an individual. And sometimes within that independent living domain, we think about community engagement. And I shouldn't say sometimes, right? We should [00:08:00] always be thinking about how is an individual who's on an IEP now going to be included in the greater community in their adult life.
Um, so there are sort of these three Buckets of working, learning or training, learning and or training and living for adulthood. And so we look at those areas and then we look at what kinds of skills and strengths and preferences and interests that student has and we start to plan to make sure that we're going to be able to make progress towards those outcomes in adulthood.
Um, so that's sort of what is transition planning in a nutshell. Um, but it's not something you just do one time, that's for sure.
Amy Wonkka: Well, and you mentioned that five year old student who we might be thinking about their employment, and I wanted to ask you because I know at least in Massachusetts, uh, there's a structured transition planning form and transition planning process that takes part as part of the IEP.
Um, but it sounds like you're talking about having this transition planning [00:09:00] mindset much earlier than we start using the form. Can you talk? Absolutely.
Yeah. And so something that I am not sure if you and Kate are aware of is that we're actually getting a totally new IEP in Massachusetts this school year and we are getting rid of that transition planning form.
And so transition planning is no longer going to be just a form that we use for students. Sometimes after the IEP was even completed, transition planning is going to be integrated into the IEP process. In Massachusetts, there's going to be a complete transition planning section as part of that process.
But there will also be on the new IEP in Massachusetts, questions for kids ages 3 to 14, asking them about their vision for the next few years and some of the things that they're interested in. And so we won't get into formal transition planning for students who are under the age of 13 in Massachusetts, but we will get into this idea of what are [00:10:00] you interested in?
What are your goals? What are your concerns for your IEP process? And that's going to look different for every student. I don't expect that every kid three and up is going to be sitting in team meetings this next school year, but I'm hoping that what we are going to do is be shifting our mindset to number one, If you've got a child on an IEP, the IEP is about the child.
And so if we're thinking about goals and objectives and what a kid's going to learn, we need to be thinking about what the kid cares about, right? What's motivating this student? What are they interested in? What do they like about school? What do they hate about school? You know, how do we make this a more kid centered process?
How do we help empower kids to have a voice in this process? Which might mean finding other ways to get that voice into the team meeting when they're little. Um, but a five year old can make a PowerPoint, you know, with support, like a Google dot, right, can come up with pictures that were important to them from the year, things like that.
Um, and then we also need to be thinking about Like, if we're putting things [00:11:00] into an IEP for a student this school year, no matter what the school year is, first grade, second grade, third grade, are we helping this student in a functional way so that this student is going to be a more successful adult in the long term?
And so where I think of this the most for younger students is certainly goals and objectives, right? Um, communication, um, SLPs who are listening to this, right? Speech language pathologists, you guys have such an important role in transition planning for students. Because one of the ways that students can be safest and most empowered in their adult life is if they have intelligible ways of communicating with other people.
Right? So I think about that really early on. Right? For students who are non speaking or have fewer, you know, like, are we getting AAC in their classroom? Really early so that we can empower students to have their own voice like that is so critical as part of transition planning. Um, and then some of this like self advocacy and the social communication pieces, like all of [00:12:00] that has such a huge impact on being a successful adult.
Um, so those are some of the things I think about for students early on. And then just to caveat, cause I assume there will be a speech language pathologist listening to this throughout the like these IEP documents are different in each state. So if we look across states, there are going to be a number of states that have a transition planning section of the IEP.
There will be other states that still have that separate transition planning document. Then there are going to be some states that just have it like embedded within and you can't really tell it's happening. Then there's some states that don't totally include it yet or we don't kind of know how that's included based on what's available.
But the important thing is like the this mindset, right? This thinking about that. The reason we provide special education services for students is so that they can access education and it's so that they can access education and make progress towards meaningful adulthood, right? We are [00:13:00] always thinking about students who are going to be workers and learners and active parts of their community.
After they exit public education, and I do think about, you know, anytime you're talking about accommodations or support services for a student, are we putting an accommodation in because this kid really needs this accommodation. It's an accommodation. They need to learn how to use and it's an accommodation that they might get later in life.
Are we putting an accommodation in because we're sort of avoiding teaching a skill that the student really needs and then the same with when we're at IEP goals to an IEP, you know, like, are we working on a math goal this year because this kid's really going to need this particular math skill in their adult life, or should we actually be going the technology route for that and working on other literacy stuff that's going to be more useful for that student.
So it's tough because it is about prioritizing. I certainly don't want to cut any. Um, any potential routes out for a student early in life? But a lot of, I think, early [00:14:00] IEP development is more around, like, what does this student need to be able to be an active driving force in their life, right? And a lot of times that is communication skills, literacy skills, numeracy skills, um, and certainly life skills for some students.
Kate Grandbois: Um, anyone who's listening to this can't see Amy and I aggressively bobbing our heads. Um, and enthusiastically, I want to, like, give you all the air high fives through, through Zoom. Um, What I love so much about this is the, I think as clinicians we've, Very often, and I'm very guilty of this, move along in our goal development process and our IEP development process kind of just following development.
Well, this is what should come next, and so this is what we're going to do. And reframing this and constantly pinging back against what is, what is our long term goal? What is going to happen in the future? And making sure that all of those things are aligned is so critically important. And I just want to emphasize that and how much I.
[00:15:00] wholeheartedly and enthusiastically agree with everything that you're saying. But I also, it's at the same time making me think about the very real and difficult conversations that must end up coming out of those thoughts when you are a clinician working with a five year old who's in kindergarten or in first grade and Trying to find a way to bring this up to families or maybe reach out to the transition specialist because it might feel so premature or, you know, really feel like we're not ready to have that conversation yet.
What can you tell us about how to navigate that, that difficulty?
So, I'm going to sidestep just a tiny bit and just point out one thing that's really important to know that's in the law about transition services, which is transition services are mandated to start for students at the age of 16 nationally in Massachusetts, we have stronger protections and they start at 14, but there is [00:16:00] language in.
Um, both federal and local laws wherever you are that also says or earlier if appropriate. And so if you are a speech language pathologist working with a student who is younger who is struggling in whatever domain they might be struggling in that they sort of are working with you to support there's always this question of do you think it's going to take a little bit longer for this student to develop.
And if so, you know, how can you start that conversation with a parent? And I think a lot of times, at least if, you know, if a parent is accessing speech language services, They know there's something their kid needs that's outside of general, normative, you know, typical, right? Um, and so, I think sometimes that's your lead in, is like, you know how you knew to come to look for speech language services, or you put your kid through this evaluation?
It was because X was taking a little bit longer to develop, or they just needed a specialized way of learning. [00:17:00] Well, when we think about your child in the future, you know, becoming a successful middle schooler, becoming a successful high schooler, and then eventually becoming a successful adult. I'm thinking that it might take some additional specialized support for them to build those skills, right?
I think anytime you can help a parent or family or a student buy into the fact that they've already made these decisions for their child and so it's likely that they're going to have to make some other more unique decisions in the future. Um, I think that's a really helpful approach as a clinician, and one of the things I tend to focus on, both on the professional but also on the parenting side, right, is just getting into the mindset of, like, noticing when you are helping, right?
Like, noticing, when have I jumped in and provided a support, as opposed to, Giving the student as much time as possible to [00:18:00] wiggle through or struggle through whatever the task is in the moment, right? Um, and if we can help parents to start thinking that way at early ages, that is an enormous piece of transition planning.
An enormous piece of transition planning as professionals who are helpers, or as parents who love to help and support and prevent trauma. Risk and frustration is just finding opportunities to allow students to struggle to intentionally build skills, um, and trying to maximize those. And there are certainly times in the day, whether it's the school day, you know, the clinical session, the home life that we do have to just help because we got to get through something because we got to be somewhere.
But then there are other times that we actually don't need to rush through things, right? And what we are struggling with is our own frustration tolerance or our own anxiety because a kiddo is struggling and trying to find those moments to just allow struggle, allow risk, you know, allow. [00:19:00] That's when kids develop confidence and confidence and, you know, and coping skills, right?
So I think some of it is, is reframing mindset to allow for more independence, more success, more skill building as early as possible. And if we can start building that mindset, um, We don't, I mean, that's just a piece of things. And then it's also when you head into team meetings thinking about that too, right?
Like, where have we sort of like over set up the day for success for this kiddo? And where are there opportunities for challenge risk, you know, um, just additional skill building. And it can be, I mean, there's just so many skills that are part of this process. So it is a little bit of a mindset shift. And I think you can have that conversation without.
Um, jumping into all of the scary things like you're going to need guardianship eventually, but we don't have to talk about that at five. Although it's interesting. [00:20:00] I was recently actually over, you know, with a friend who had a child who will need guardianship. guardianship eventually, and they were starting to think about what are the most important pieces to plan.
And there is something to be said for consulting with like special needs financial planners and special needs attorneys kind of early. And again, I think you can have that conversation of you've accessed some, some extra support for your child now. You may need to access some extra support for your child legally in the long term.
Like, here, if you're somebody who's thinking about working with a financial planner, if you're somebody who's thinking about, you know, setting up, um, any sort of, like, guardianship in your absence as a parent, you may want to be seeking out people who have expertise in working with students with special needs, students with disabilities, as you're making those kinds of decisions.
Right? I think just recognizing that you're part of the disability community, and that that means that you want to seek out professional supports from other people who [00:21:00] understand the disability community is so important.
Kate Grandbois: That's a great segue into my next question. My next question actually Uh, which is just related to infrastructure and supports.
Um, so for anyone listening who might have some light bulbs going off and be thinking, Oh, these are conversations I should be thinking about, or I might want to reflect on the goals I've written a little bit differently and look through what I'm doing clinically. Look at what I'm doing clinically through a transition planning lens.
I can imagine myself in those shoes wanting to reach out to someone like you or wanting to find a colleague or work with someone who has specific transitional supports in their skill set, but that would also imply that someone with that skill set is in my workplace and then we start talking about, What infrastructure is really required to execute this?
Well, I wonder if you can just talk to us about some of those elements or some of those [00:22:00] resources that an end infrastructure components that an SLP might seek out or look for to make sure that transition transition planning is supported.
It's a little complicated because obviously speech language pathologists might be working in a variety of different settings.
And so the infrastructure that's available or the infrastructure to look for might be a little different. Um, I mean, I think. If folks are in more of like a clinic or a hospital based setting, there may be like social workers or there may actually be somebody in that setting who focuses on, um, like medical transition for students and then they might have access to other kinds of community based resources.
If folks are in schools, uh, it's pretty widely discrepant who is in the setting who's going to have any sense of. IEP transition planning, transition services, um, [00:23:00] how do we sort of seamlessly make the transition from special education to adulthood? Um, but certainly I think there are questions you can ask within a school district setting or questions you can ask families to ask to start to figure out, like, Is there anybody here?
Is there anybody who's part of this infrastructure? I mean, I think about, um, something we haven't talked about yet, but part of special education, um, transition planning is that students have access to something called transition assessment eventually. And even if we don't dive into what that is, a question you can ask is like, who does transition assessment in our school district, right?
Like you now know, because you're listening to this, that this is a requirement. Somewhere throughout, you know, the K to 12 or post 12th grade process to have transition assessment happen. So a good question to start to assess your infrastructure is like who does transition assessment in our school district who's involved in determining what transition services are part of the students IEP.[00:24:00]
Because the truth is, legally, that could be a lot of different people in different school districts. We are seeing, there are national transition specialist endorsements now. There are some states that have transition specialist endorsements now. Massachusetts is one of them that has a local endorsement.
However, there are no rules that say that schools must employ transition specialists. And that's okay. Sometimes there are people with different career titles who might have expertise in this. It might be a special ed administrator. It might be be a special ed teacher. It might be an occupational therapist.
We're seeing a lot of occupational therapists, um, in the transition specialist role in certain places. So, um, asking those questions of like, who does transition assessment and who's involved in implementation of transition services will give you a sense of like who in our system is doing this. And there are systems where they're going to turn around and say like, no one, we don't do that.
We haven't heard of that. And then, um. Like [00:25:00] outside of like who's doing this internally, it's a lot about like what's going on in the community, you know, every, every state to some degree is going to have some organization that's involved in advocacy for families, especially families on IEPs, there are usually parent information centers or parent information groups.
And so you might also look for in the community, you know, where are. The groups that provide parent information around transition planning, like that's actually part of your, you know, your infrastructure or your ability to sort of bring in those groups for training, bring in those groups to to be able to help parents.
I also think about things like if we're talking about employment. Um, states will have vocational rehabilitation agencies. I don't know how often as a speech language pathologist you interface with VR, but it's great to know, like, what does VR do? Because for students who are school aged, there's actually a requirement for voc rehab to provide pre employment transition [00:26:00] services in every single state in this country, typically 14 and up.
If the school doesn't know that, they may not refer the student to do that. Or if you at the hospital don't know that you might not know that, but this is something that's often available. So looking up what are the pre employment transition services in my state? How did, how could a kiddo access that?
The truth is that vocational rehabilitation services are all about helping with disabilities, helping people with disabilities to access employment in adult life. They're pretty good at employment. That's, you know, that's what they do. So involving that agency at earlier ages can only be helpful for students.
Um, and also in, in a lot of, um, States, there's going to be like a department of developmental services or, you know, somebody who is providing developmental services for students with intellectual disabilities, there are often family support services right before students have exited. So helping, uh, to make sure [00:27:00] that families know.
That there's going to be some agency that can provide them with family support. In some states, there are going to be agencies that can provide them with autism support. I mean, transition planning is all about figuring out like who the kid's going to be in adulthood, but also who their support community is going to be in adulthood.
We all have support communities. It's not just for kids with disabilities. And so part of what you can do is if we don't have internal infrastructure, Um, and you're ambitious, right? Like, how do I at least start to figure out who the external resources are? Even if it's just, I mean, one list of like, I know who provides parents support.
I know who provides employment support. It's going to be book rehab. I know who provides, um, a little bit more of the family support and case management, you know, it's like, and actually something I haven't mentioned, but it's another great resource in all 50 States are independent living centers. There are independent living centers or centers for independent living in every state and [00:28:00] their entire purpose and existence is to support adults with disabilities to live in their communities and they will often service any individual with disability any age.
And they can provide things like peer mentoring and skill development, but also advocacy and support. And so sometimes families just accessing that one resource or students just accessing that one resource, um, can be really helpful. And those can be accessed during school ages. So there there's kind of like a handful of things you can look for in almost any state that aren't, I mean, there's state infrastructure as opposed to within a school or within a clinic infrastructure, but.
That's really what transition planning is, you know, it's not just about like what's in the building. It's about how do I connect this individual to life outside the building. Um, so I, I'm hoping that I'm given enough information to give like starting places for thinking about this.
Kate Grandbois: Oh, totally. And everything you said also made me think about the intersection of all of this infrastructure or lack of infrastructure.[00:29:00]
And the culture of our workplaces, right? So depending on where we work, we may work in a place that really values EBP. We might work in a place that really values, um, parent, parent centered education. We also might work in a place that doesn't value those things. And I think transition planning sounds like it may fall into one of those categories where your workplace setting either values and centers or doesn't value.
And, you know, values, obviously the things that, uh, you know, From a professional standpoint, what kind of resources are allocated? How easy is it to access those resources? And all of this is making me think about, you know, the clinician who's working in a place and then maybe thinking, Oh, I have a few barriers to overcome because my workplace doesn't necessarily center those things.
But But if you're working in a school, they may be federally required to provide some of these things. So what can you tell us about IDEA? What the federal requirements are? Um, I'm just thinking, you [00:30:00] know, an SLP out there who is maybe thinking about some of those barriers that might really help us out to know what those federal requirements are so we can very kindly educate our colleagues, um, about what we must be providing to students on IEPs.
Thanks. I think,
I mean, I think that's so important. And I, I think what I am, um, somewhat constantly reminded of as a transition specialist, which is obviously a pretty small profession right now in the United States, who's been doing, you know, who's been working as a transition specialist in the same place, you know, like in a pretty prominent, um, city in Massachusetts for 11 years.
I think like, oh, I've been doing this for 11 years here. Everybody must know that I exist and that transition services exist. And, you know, and sometimes I, I walk into team meetings in the same school district that I've been going into for 11 years and I see some, some really similar challenges and I do not at all.
Place [00:31:00] blame on anybody within a school district for this not happening seamlessly, right? Because we have limited budgets and we have increasing numbers of students with special education needs, and especially post pandemic. Now we're seeing students who are just more complex, right? So I'm not saying that it's easy to follow this federal mandate at all.
Um, but, but it's, it is, it's sad and fascinating to me that like this has been part of the law for 20 years. And yet, there are so many, um, families, students, and professionals who support the IEP process who don't actually realize that this is such a critical piece of this process, right? So, um, you know, as, as spe as speech language pathologists, related providers, anybody listening to this, like, you're certainly, hopefully, familiar with IDEA, right?
You know that this is a federal law that guarantees students with disabilities an equal opportunity to free and appropriate public education. Bye. You may or may not be aware that right within the [00:32:00] purpose of special education, right, within the law when we talk about what's the purpose of special education, it actually specifically mandates that the purpose of special education and related services is to meet the unique needs of students with disabilities and to prepare them for further education, employment, and independent living.
So those are those buckets that I mentioned before. So literally the reason we have special education is so that kids are better prepared for further education or training, employment, and independent living. So just knowing that, and that's one of our learning objectives, that's why I'm sort of hammering it home, but just knowing that and being able to talk about that in your school community, you're like, how are we as a district or as a community, um, using our IEPs to prepare students for these things is a key.
Question, you know, so that's one component of idea. That's so important. And I think a lot of times, even in districts where we do transition planning. Well, we may not think about that until students are high school, or it may not be considered at all. Or it's like an [00:33:00] afterthought. So then we tack on, but really thinking about that when you walk into meetings, right?
If you're part of a team, like, did we at all think about. Preparing this kid for life after high school. You know, that's important. Um, and then there's sort of this, like, what's the primary mechanism through which we help to prepare students for life after special education? And that's this, this word we've been talking about, or this phrase we've been talking about, which is transition services.
Um, and transition services are described and defined right in IDEA as well. So, uh, this is more within the definition of an IEP, like what has to be in an IEP. The law states that no later than age 16, Or earlier when required. And as I said, Massachusetts is one of these states that starts at 14. There is at least one state that starts at 12, although I don't know which one.
And it's interesting, right, like the age ranges, some states offer special education all the way up till age 26 so like there's shorter and longer transition planning periods. [00:34:00] Mandated by law, depending on what state you're in, but no later than age 16, a student's IEP must include appropriate measurable post secondary goals.
So we have to list out exactly what those goals are for after special education and the IEP. Those goals have to be based on age appropriate transition assessment. So there has to be assessment that was done to help determine those goals, and that assessment needs to be documented in the IEP, and the assessments need to be related to training, education, employment, and where appropriate, independent living skills, and then it has to list out transition services.
Including the course of study that is needed to assist this child in reaching those goals, right? So we actually have to be listing out. Is this student going to get a diploma? You know, are there certain classes this student needs to have? Is this student, um, going to be sitting for standardized testing if that's required in your state or things like that?
Like, that all has to be in there. [00:35:00] Um, And then I want to break down transition services a little bit more, but it's big, and that's why this is hard to do. So, you know, the transition services have to be part of an IEP, right? You gotta be able to see those in the document annually after the kid's 16, um, after the kid's 14 in Massachusetts.
Um, but transition services are a coordinated set of activities. So they can't just be ad hoc. Like, there has to be a way that these things are happening in a coordinated manner. Um, they're designed to be within a results oriented process. So again, It's reasonably calculated that these services are going to help the kid make progress towards their goals, and then they need to be focused on improving the academic and the functional achievement of the child with a disability to facilitate the child's movement from school to post school activities that include, again, post secondary education.
Vocational education, um, integrated employment, continuing adult education, adult services, [00:36:00] independent living, or community participation, right? So the services are going to propel movement forward towards those different outcomes. They're based on the child's needs. That's not a surprise because in special education, we're always looking at the child's needs.
But the other thing about transition services is they take into account the child's strengths. The child's preferences and the child's interests. So when I think about, um, transition IEPs or IEPs where you can tell that transition services are being delivered appropriately, it should, there should be documentation of like, what is this kid good at?
What are they interested in? What do we know about their preferences that's going to impact their future employment or their future, um, learning or things like that, right? Thanks. And then, okay, so we talked a lot about like the qualifiers for the services, but what are the services? Well, they can be instruction, right?
They can be general ed instruction, right? It could be taking a computer science class, if you're a kid who wants to be a computer programmer in the long term. So they can be instruction. They can also be specialized [00:37:00] instruction. And that's what's interesting is a lot of times kids need very specialized instruction.
To develop skills that maybe their peers didn't need very specialized instruction to develop, but their skills that we know are going to be important for employment or for accessing college or training or for living more independently. And so we first need to think about is there instruction or specialized instruction that this kid needs.
They can be related services. Like speech language services, uh, like occupational therapy services, which we often don't see at the high school level in Massachusetts, but occupational therapy is critical when sensory, you know, when sensory integration is getting in the way, when there's a motor piece to what's going on, right?
So there's, they can be speech language, they can be OT, they can be PT, physical therapy. They can be a lot of things we're used to for related services, but they can also be things like job coaching. If a student needs to be practicing vocational skills, either within a school environment or out in the community setting, um, they could be something like a [00:38:00] transition specialist as a related service provider, if that exists.
You know, they could be, uh, they could actually be voc rehab services. Like, it's interesting because those can be accessed, obviously, um, in a free way, but there can also be ways that those are integrated into the IEP process. Um, they can also be things like community experiences. Right. And if we're talking about students who have trouble with skill generalization, then providing IEP services in the same classroom throughout high school and never seeing if they can generalize those skills to another setting is kind of irrational.
So these community experiences, like what are the community experiences a student needs to have this year that would help them to be progressing towards post secondary adult life? One of the things I think is so fascinating is we require the You know, kids to have assessments where they can set goals for life after high school, but half the times the kids don't know what the options are for setting those goals.
So sometimes there are community experiences that need to happen [00:39:00] so that students can better be part of this goal setting process. The other things that can be part of transition services is literally like the development of employment and other post school adult living objectives. So let's say I'm starting transition services.
I've got a 13 year old 13 year old is going to turn 14 during this period. Therefore, we need to talk about transition. You know, we need to have transition assessment and talk about transition services at the IEP meeting, but that 13 year old. Doesn't know what they want to do for a job after high school.
That's okay. Part of their transition services this year can be thinking about developmentally appropriate career education for that student, right? That could be a student, you know, putting together a PowerPoint over the year of like interviewing their parents and interviewing other people to figure out what they do for work and what their career paths were, right?
Like you can think about, um, what are, what's appropriate for this kid this year so that they can have better employment objectives. Next year, right? Um, and then if [00:40:00] appropriate, it says acquisition of daily living skills and functional vocational evaluation. Those are two very different things, but they're put in one bullet point.
So daily living skills to me, um, there are lots of places in the federal law that says transition services. Might include daily living skills. I think historically the percentage of students who are on IEPs that needed help with like ADLs or IADLs, um, was a lot smaller. I think when we think about students who have special education needs now, there are many times they're going to need some level of specialized instruction or a service to be able to have age appropriate daily living skills.
Um, What's interesting is, and I know we started this talking about speech language pathologists who might not have the infrastructure around transition services in their school system, one of the things to just note if you're sitting in a team meeting is, you know, is this student, um, is any part of this IEP supporting the student's acquisition of [00:41:00] daily living skills?
And if not, how was that determination to do that? Made, right? Like, did somebody just say, I don't think this kid needs ADLs, or was there some sort of informal or formal assessment tool that helped to define that? I think there are times that students can show up at school looking like they don't have daily living skills, uh, challenges, and it might have been like three hours at home with a parent to get the kid looking like that.
And if we don't ask the question or use some sort of standardized measure to figure out if these are sort of age normative skills, um, the team doesn't really have a basis for determining that that's not appropriate for ADLs to be part of this IEP, right? So something to just think about is like, did transition assessment happen?
And did we ever talk about whether it was important for this kid to develop daily living skills? If we didn't like, you could raise that question, like, um, you know, depending on, uh, sort of, What your team dynamics are. But just to say like, Oh, I know for transition planning, we're [00:42:00] supposed to determine if it's appropriate to work on daily living skills, like, does anyone have data to be able to figure that out?
Right. Um, there are a lot of kids that we know they're gonna need specialized instruction in that area. And so, um, just making sure that, uh, somebody's done an assessment to, to be able to quantify that and figure out who the best person is to work on that. And how are we integrating that into the IEP process is so important.
And I, I don't know, um. Sort of like what percentage of speech language pathologists would be working on executive functioning skills in school. But certainly if a kid has executive dysfunction, that is going to impact their ability to carry out daily living skills. And so that's important. Um, and then the last piece of transition services.
that I mentioned was that functional vocational evaluation, some students really need to go through more of a hands on evaluation process with a rehab specialist or an occupational therapist or transition specialist to be able to figure out more about what accommodations they might need for work, what technologies need to be in place to support [00:43:00] them.
And like, what kinds of jobs are going to be sort of reasonable or that they need to be trialing over time. So that is also something that can be a transition service, right? We did a career interest at, you know, inventory for this kid, but that's not really the best way to evaluate vocational skills for this student.
So functional vocational evaluation is going to happen this school year. And It's going to be, you know, over X amount of time or it's going to be a couple of days or but that can be a transition service for a student. So it's a little odd because you're supposed to do assessment to be able to name the goals to then figure out the services.
But sometimes what you figure out is that we actually need more assessment over the course of the next year to be able to do the transition planning better next year. And that's okay. If you have started this process on time or early enough for the student. It's a problem when it's 12th grade, you know.
So. Um, that's the piece. So hopefully I just gave again enough information to
Kate Grandbois: it's no, this is great. And I, I, you know, [00:44:00] as you were talking, one of the things that stood out to me was if we don't ask the question, then we don't have the reason we don't have the space to. We don't have the information we need to move forward.
I think is you said something. I'm paraphrasing and botching all of the brilliance that you just shared. But I think that is such an important point. And it's something that we talk about on this podcast a lot is that Uh, the importance of asking those questions, the importance of measurement, the importance of measurement, and then the relationship between how we measure things and how we move forward.
So what kind of goals do we write? What kind of targets are we choosing? Um, I'm thinking about SLPs listening to this and absorbing it, understanding that it's, you know, related to what we're doing every single day, even though it may not be the central focus of what we're doing every single day. I'm thinking about SLPs who might be.
starting to have these conversations with administrators or parents, um, and making referrals. So finding those resources, um, or, [00:45:00] you know, asking for some of these assessments. Are there things that an SLP can look for in a transition assessment that would make it a good transition assessment? Are there things other, before we start talking about goals and the connection between assessment and goal writing and how we move forward, Are there things other than what you've already listed that would be really critically important to look for in a trans in a comprehensive transitional assessment?
Yeah, I think what is complicated and actually I haven't defined transition assessment yet. So when I kind of step back. And provide a definition of it, but it's not going to be that helpful, but, but I want to make sure you know, as someone's listening to this and they're thinking about it, you need to know what it is to be able to share.
It will be very helpful.
Kate Grandbois: You're not giving it. So, so
the funny thing about transition assessment is it's absolutely in idea. It says we have to determine post secondary [00:46:00] goals based on age appropriate transition assessment. Um, I think speech language, you know, assessment is defined in IDEA. Occupational therapy assessment is defined in IDEA.
Transition assessment is not defined in the federal law. Uh, but, um, we do have a commonly accepted definition of transition assessment that has sort of been utilized, um, in various ways legally over the years. And that comes from the Division on Career Development and Transition, Which is called DCDT, which is out of the Council for Exceptional Children, um, CEC.
So DCDT wrote a position paper that defines transition assessment. And the way that they define it is an ongoing process of collecting data on the individual's needs, preferences, and interests. As they relate to the demands of current and future working, educational, educational, living, and personal and social environments.
So, it's a broad, vague definition, but the whole point is, [00:47:00] the way you know if you've, if you have enough data, if you've seen a comprehensive transition assessment for a student, or if you've seen enough different evaluations that we are sort of coordinating in a comprehensive way for a student, is. Do we have information about what the student's goals are going to be after high school?
And do we have information about what the student's needs and strengths and preferences are right now that can help us to define annual goals and objectives for this year and figure out what services are needed and figure out if we need to do more assessments. So it's a little bit of a reverse, you know, reverse thinking in terms of the way you know you had good transition assessment as you have the information you need to develop the IEP.
Right. Um, and You know, then it's sort of like, do I also have information about what I suspect would be challenging for this kid when we think about the transition planning process? One of the questions that I like to ask as an evaluator, um, to professionals working [00:48:00] with the student at school, to the parents, to the student themselves, is like, what are you most worried about when this kid exits public education and enters into adulthood?
Right, if I ask everyone who knows this kid what they're most worried about, what could go wrong, what are the obstacles here, I'm gonna know if there's something I need to evaluate or dig into more. And if you're reading, um, if you are lucky enough to actually be looking at a transition assessment report, um, that was either done school based or done by a collaborative or an organization outside of the school, um, Then the question is like if you read that report, do you clearly see what the goals are for the student after special education?
I see a lot of really thorough transition assessments that give a lot of information about these domains of transition planning, but never actually get to the point of saying here are the post secondary goals that should be in this kid's IEP and that we should be aiming for. And so if that's not in the report, [00:49:00] Then, like, what are, how are we coming up with those for the team meeting?
How are we then creating an IEP? So that's one thing to look for is, like, Did we, you know, sort of flesh out what the kids goals are, or if if the goals were vague, did we say here's the goals right now and a recommendation for this year is going to be sort of working with the student to participate in some activities that they're learning more about themselves so that these goals can be better defined next year when we meet as a team.
Um, and then the other thing is just are there sort of clear recommendations around again in those different buckets of have we thought about employment for this student? Were there assessments and recommendations related to employment for this kid? Career planning, career development, vocational aptitude, vocational interests, you know, like, did we learn something about employment for this student through this evaluation process?
And, um, you know, are there recommendations in that area? Certainly, um, Are there like assessments that are helping to formulate what that kid's going to do for learning and training [00:50:00] after high school and whether they have the skills to be able to progress in that path. And I'm sort of smiling as I say this because I see so many times in Massachusetts in particular we are very college focused.
And I think there are other states that are very much like that. And, um, so often it's like the kid's going to go to college, you know, but then when you look at IEP objectives that did not, the kid's not going to college, right? And so there's either a mismatch between we have a post secondary goal here that's unachievable for this student, or we haven't set up annual objectives to be, um, Ambitious enough for the student to actually be able to bridge that transition.
And what's wonderful in the United States right now is like, there's a lot of different ways to go to college. There are a lot of different support services available to make that transition. But again, the IEP has to be setting the student up to access those, right? Um, if a student's going to need disability services or need an executive function coach or need, need a support, then they have to know they have a diagnosis and they have [00:51:00] to have the skills to be able to disclose and use that resource.
So. So sometimes it's, it's like self advocacy skills that are needed. Um, and then the other thing with the transition assessment, and this is so important is like, did anybody bother to check if life skills are needed for this student? Right. I think that's the one you're, you're going to look for the most of, like, if we don't have life skills data in this transition assessment, was it evaluated somewhere else in the student's career?
And if not, we're really missing out on an important domain for a student. Um, And some of the other things that I look for, or that I strongly recommend looking for when you're thinking about was this comprehensive, are sort of, where did the data come from? You know, did we get data from a variety of sources?
Number one, did we get data from the student themselves? Right? Uh, that is important. But if that's all the data we got, that's probably not super valid. Um, there are a couple students that might be valid for, but, but really it's not just, The student, but also did we get information from the parent or guardians [00:52:00] or did we get information from school providers?
If there's a really important related provider out there in the universe of the kids got a therapist, you know, if the kids got like, is there some data coming in from people who know this student really well, so that we are certainly. So we have the most appropriate post secondary goals for the student, and so that we have the most appropriate information in terms of what transition services are needed for this year.
So I like to see data from multiple sources. I also like to see, as part of transition assessment, like one, I'm going to say transition planning inventory and it's funny because there is a tool that's called the transition planning inventory. It's the third edition now and it's like a 57 item checklist, but there are a number of other like transition activities transition inventories.
There's even like Washington State has this life skills inventory. That's actually like pretty broad. It covers all the transition planning areas. I like to see one. Checklist that's across all the areas. Um, you know, [00:53:00] almost as that like quick check to make sure that we haven't missed something. And if that's done, then it's like, I don't need like a big Vinelander at a bath if I did a transition planning checklist, and that has a couple of life skills questions on it.
Like, you'll be able to flag areas that need to be part of transition planning just by doing that.
Amy Wonkka: As you're speaking, I'm listening to you talking about it and I'm listening to, you know, sort of the piece about this transition as a process that's happening, if I'm an SLP, who's working with a middle school age student or a high school age student, uh, but I do keep coming back to, it can also sort of be a shift in mindset for those of us who are working with younger age students.
You know, I think about in, in my career, I've mostly worked with I previously worked with early intervention up through high school age students, and my focus for my younger students on my caseload has been about access to school and not really broadening that vision to think that far into the full into the future.[00:54:00]
About what some of those skills are and I wonder if you can talk to us Like I think if you're working with the later age students You actually have the benefit of hopefully having somebody who has done the transition assessment So now, you know all of these areas that you should be more thoughtful about I wonder if you can talk to us a little bit about how we might see the transition planning reflected in a course In some IEP goals, both for those older age students, but also, you know, for those of us who are working with younger preschool, elementary school age students, how we might also sort of broaden our mindset, have those bigger conversations with families, you know, thinking back to the comment you made about, is this something that is a skill deficit versus an accommodation?
Um, and just how we can be thoughtful across the entire. age spectrum of school aged, um, individuals who are going to receive some sort of IEP transition supports.
Yeah. I think for the younger students in particular, um, [00:55:00] I mean, access to school is important, right? Like, an integration into the community is important.
Like, those are skills that we want for students lifelong. We want them to be able to access learning and be part of their communities lifelong. So, that focus is quite important. I think these self advocacy and the self determination skills are really what I would just encourage Anybody working with a preschool student and elementary school student and middle school student to make sure that that is embedded in this IEP process and that we aren't circumventing those skills for students.
And so, you know, when I just gave my sort of lengthy description of transition assessment and transition services, one of the things I talked about is that this process is based on the students needs, but it is also based on their strengths. And their interests and their preferences. And the most ideal way for that to be part of this process is because the student has [00:56:00] learned what their strengths and their interests and their preferences are and how to communicate those to other people.
And so I think, um, you know, like, Those self advocacy kinds of skills, the self awareness, um, the perspective taking in terms of how are my strengths different than somebody else's strengths or how are my needs different, you know, like the ownership of like the some things are hard for me, um, that is all critical and and Honestly, I mean, that's what often prevents teenage students from participating in this process is either, um, I am not willing or able to acknowledge that I have a disability, I am not willing or able to acknowledge that anything is hard for me.
So like, if we could work on those skills earlier if we had that mindset of not just does this kid need a math goal or reading a writing goal. Um, a fluency goal, you know, an audiology, sort of like a listening, [00:57:00] right? Like, like, if we're thinking about, like, does this kid need to be able to talk about themselves?
Does this kid need to be able to compare different parts of their own sort of skill set, right? Like those kinds of things early on would empower students to be so much more successful as part of this transition planning process. And I think about, um, and I, I wrote like a blog post or not just like a LinkedIn post about this recently, but just having a conversation at, uh, my son was at the dinner table and like I was standing, my son eats for a very long time, so the dinner table and we were just talking about, um, memory, right?
And. He made some comment and I was like, and, uh, he noticed that his dad had gotten a haircut and he made the comment of like, dad, did you cut your hair this morning? And my husband said, actually, I cut my hair last night and my son looks at me. He goes, mom, did you notice that dad got a haircut? I'm like, no, no, I did not notice that dad got a haircut.
And I said, but that's one of the things I love about [00:58:00] you. You have you pay very close attention to your environment. You look really closely at what's going on visually in your environment, and you have an amazing visual memory, so you will notice if something in your environment changed from yesterday to today.
My brain's not like that. I'm not paying attention to the world around me. I walk into walls and doors frequently, right? Like literally I'm just, I'm in such a hurry. I don't, I don't, you know, position myself correctly, but I remember everything that is said in my environment, right? Like my, my listening memory is really strong.
And then my son said, mine's not, you know, and, and just being able to say like, Hey, my visual memory is really great. My auditory memory. It's pretty terrible. Um, and being okay with that, just that it was a matter of fact discussion, like that's what we want for younger students, is that like, it is okay that different parts of my cognitive profile are different from one another.
It is okay that I can learn [00:59:00] math faster than I can learn reading and writing, right? Like just being able to engage in discussions about that meaningfully Like that is transition planning and that is what enables kids to be part of this process and set goals and then be willing to work hard on certain things and also like students getting acknowledgement for the hard things that they've learned to do and like this was harder for you to learn but like you were you worked really hard and you got that and you can do that because that is going to also be a big part of transition planning is being willing to work hard at the stuff that you're not so good at.
Kate Grandbois: I love this so much because what you've just described is a conversation with another human being, not because they have a disability, but because they are a human, right? That's, that is a, that is a condition of human existence is to have some things that are easier and some things that are more challenging.
Not everyone is good at everything. And I love the example you've given of sharing something about yourself, making it very [01:00:00] normalized, creating a space in your professional and, you know, your professional relationship with your client where they don't feel othered. Well, we're here to work on something because it's really hard for you.
You know, that, that is not the environment that is, that is going to be therapeutic or helpful. Um, it was just a really great example. And I, I, I thank you for sharing that. That was awesome.
Yeah, I think that's just, um, I mean, again, it's this shift in mindset. Like, I'm lucky because I do this professionally.
So, so in some ways, you know, like, I'm up in the middle of the night thinking about, like, planning for adulthood for my own family or for my students. But it really is. It's just thinking about like, when can we be working on goal setting? When can we be working on self awareness? You know, how do you embed that?
And then I also think, and unfortunately I don't think this is something you guys struggle with professionally, but I think really thinking about communication for students early, um, not waiting on AAC, you [01:01:00] know, it's so frustrating working with these like 17 or 18 year olds who are just not intelligible to anybody, but.
their parent. And, um, like that's a wonderful thing. And I'm super happy for that parent that they have a communication method that's working for them. But that means that their kid can't access the world without their parent right next to them. And I do, I have a student who actually is like out shopping.
And if the sort of clerk doesn't understand what he's saying, he knows enough to call mom, get mom on the phone. She interprets in the moment. But then if mom is busy, That's no longer a functional way for that student to be able to make a purchase, right? So I think you guys have such, um, an important role in making sure that students can self advocate, making sure that students can be safe because they can communicate with other people.
And especially making sure that students are set up with the right. Low tech, high tech, whatever kind of tech support is going to work for them. Um, so that they, again, can be more independent in adulthood. So I think [01:02:00] there's, there's no, I would never sell a student short on that being really important for them early in life.
And I do think, you know, the other thing that, um, To give you more food for thought, which isn't always helpful, but I think is really important, special education is about education. And so I don't, I don't want the transition planning mindset to take over the fact that there are skills that kids need to learn through special education, through education, that there's no other opportunity for them to learn later in life.
I have a number of families that get to my office because they're worried about planning for life. After special education, and I start to look through and I'm like, Oh my goodness, we need to be so much more focused on reading, writing and math, because the reality is what we know from research what we know, you know, no looking at like our economy and other things is that your sort of foundational literacy skills and numeracy skills like that is that is your earning power right like that has such an [01:03:00] impact on being able to obtain Integrated employment, which is what we should be aiming for, for everybody.
Um, and being able to make the most money in employment is like reading, writing, math, you know, and if, uh, if that needs to be done through accommodations, you're going to be able to use those accommodations extremely fluidly to be able to do that out in the real world. So I am not a proponent of like, we got to get this fifth grader out, you know, doing volunteer work.
I mean, that would be great. Doing that with your family is great, but I'm not a fan. I've taken instructional time just to say we're doing community experiences if they're not age normative community experiences, and that student really needs two hours of reading every day, you know, if you have a kid who is Still motivated to be working on their reading skills, whether it's middle school or high school, and can continue to progress with those and is going to be able to get to a point where those reading skills will be either functional for daily life or [01:04:00] functional for community college, or, you know, functional for them to read their medical paperwork.
The time is better spent on. reading, you know, like that is absolutely what we should be getting out of special education. We have, you know, voc rehab services are great at supporting students with employment. So I don't just want a kid going out doing a volunteer job that isn't actually related to competitive employment, where they're maybe not being held to appropriate competitive work standards in lieu of education.
So that we're saying we've got this great Transition services, you know, it's really helping that student to build skills, um, and have the experiences and activities that are going to be most functional for them so that they can be most successful when they transition eventually. And, um, so that's also something you can notice in team meetings.
It's like, Whoa, did we go way too far towards functional for this kid? And there's still untapped learning here.
Kate Grandbois: I feel like you've mentioned a few things that are really important to focus on when we [01:05:00] were thinking about that forward thinking. So you've talked a lot about self advocacy, obviously literacy and math. Are there any other, um, goal areas that a speech language pathologist could really focus on or consider when working with their clients or students in projecting forward, doing that forward thinking and considering transition planning?
I mean, depending on what age you're working with the students, executive functioning is one of the areas that certainly has come up and we've talked about. And I think, uh, one of the things that is really hard with executive functioning. Is, you know, it develops through obviously direct instruction, but also opportunities to practice with and without support.
And so sometimes it's almost thinking about like, where is this kid practicing some of these skills in more functional way? You know, like, is it executive functioning for recess or exactly? You're like this stuff that [01:06:00] happens overnight in terms of like, uh, do they need goals around getting themselves ready for school in the morning, right?
Like, like where, where can we be a little bit more functional? Functional and are thinking about that skill set. Um, but a lot of what we've already talked about. I mean, this, this self advocacy and self awareness and, and, and knowing what resources are available to me and being willing to ask for help.
Like, that is huge. Right? Communication is huge. Um, some of these foundational academic skills are huge, but certainly like. Being able to implement those in real time, being able to generalize, having strategies and supports to keep myself organized, to be able to plan, to be able to set goals, to be able to break goals down into manageable steps.
Um, those are a lot of the most important skills that are part of transition planning. Um, and then the other thing, uh, it would really be for people working later in life, but it's just a sort of check mark, and it might be something to talk with clients about if you're working with middle school or high school clients, is just thinking about like, When is this kid going to have their first [01:07:00] paid community based work experience?
And I know I'm like throwing in an extra, but that's one of the most important things is for students to actually have meaningful employment activities at some point before they've exited public education. And so I'm always talking with families about that. If you've got a family that's like over programming their student over the summer, or if a student's got IEP services during the summer, and then that's preventing them from like maybe doing a CIT position or getting a job.
Um, and I think it's really important to think about, you know, when you're planning a job at market basket, uh, which is a local grocery store, you know, it, it's thinking about like, have we put enough time into this kid's schedule and enough support so that they can start their, their work experiences early?
Because we do know that those paid integrated work experiences. Um, while in high school are enormous predictors of success post high school. So. That's not a goal area. It's not an objective, but it is sort of something you can have in your mind if you just, if you really want to have that transition planning mindset.
And if you happen to have an older student. Um, and then, you know, [01:08:00] the access to community resources, that being part of, um, our thinking, uh, a lot of times it's just, it's, um, who's in your network, right? Like, you know, if you have a family that you notice is a little bit more isolated, um, like, who's in their network?
Can we introduce other people into this network? Life is absolutely all about networking. Transition planning is about having that supportive community and getting a job eventually is about, about who you know, like, just like it is for any of us. I think sometimes we think, like, sometimes we think work works differently when you have a disability, but there are so many pieces of this process that are exactly the same.
Like, it's who you know, and it's being willing to, like, you know, make a lot of phone calls. It's being able to deal with rejection. You know, it's being able to sell yourself to other people, which is a hard skill that you Students should be practicing with you guys, right? Can I talk about myself comfortably, right?
Can I, can I talk, you know, can I talk about something that I, is an area of challenge without giving way too much detail, [01:09:00] right? So there's a lot to this that's just, um, similar stuff to when any of us, you know, started adulting.
Kate Grandbois: We both appreciate this so much. And I wonder in our last couple of minutes, if there's anything you haven't shared that you want to share or anything that you'd really like to leave our listeners with.
I think, um, what I like to share is like it's never too late or too early to start thinking about transition planning. You haven't missed the boat because you have like a 25 year old speech client who is still living at home, right? Like it's never too late to think about a young person setting goals for themselves, making a little bit of progress, taking a few steps.
And it's also not too early to start thinking about how is this student going to be independent and integrated in their adult life. Thanks. And then the other thing I just want to say is I'm sure I've shared a lot of information. Like for me, this is obviously what I do day in, day out. So I just talk about it.
Like it's common knowledge, you know, really easy. And I know it's not [01:10:00] easy. And so like, don't try to process everything from this particular session and memorize it all and do it all. Like pick that up. One thing and do it a little differently in your clinical practice tomorrow, right? Like it's just or in your educational practice tomorrow.
It's like, if you're just doing one thing that's going to support transition planning, like that's more than yesterday. And like, that's important. And then you can learn more knowledge over time. I, for families, um, uh, in Massachusetts, like there are certain. workshops or conferences that are all about transition planning.
And I tell people like, go early because you're going to be overwhelmed, right? Like, go when your kid is 12, because it's all going to feel like, Jar, you know, like jargon and jumble and it's good. You're going to be so overwhelmed, but then you go again every year. And like you, you know, like your child is different every year.
You learn something different every year. And I feel like professionally too. It's like transition planning is complicated. I feel super lucky that I get to specialize in this area. There are so many professionals working in transition where it's a small piece of what they do. And that is not [01:11:00] easy to stay on top of this.
If it's a small piece of what you do. So just take one thing away, listen to this again later, you know, like Do some other transition planning workshops, um. There are some great, you know, again, like local and national resources if you want to learn more about it, but don't try to do it all at once. I've been doing this intensively for 11 years, and there's still so much to learn.
Kate Grandbois: Well, we can tell that you've been doing this intensively for 11 years. You're brilliant, and you've just shared so much information with us in an hour. We're so grateful for your time. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for having me. This was wonderful. Thank you so much.
so much.
Kate Grandbois: Thank you so much for joining us in today's episode, as always, you can use this episode for ASHA CEUs. You can also potentially use this episode for other credits, depending on the regulations of your governing body. To determine if this episode will count towards professional development in your area of study.
Please check in with your governing bodies or you can go to our website, [01:12:00] www.slpnerdcast.com all of the references and information listed throughout the course of the episode will be listed in the show notes. And as always, if you have any questions, please email us at info@slpnerdcast.com
thank you so much for joining us and we hope to welcome you back here again soon.
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